A Muslim person from Kashmir was watching my answers to other Muslim friends in the chat room. He immediately sends me an instant private message “Please help me- Is Jesus God?” This is probably the heart of every conversation or dialogue with Muslim friends across the globe. Let me try to answer the above questions or query in short. By Praveen Raju.
A Muslim person from Kashmir was watching my answers to other Muslim friends in the chat room. He immediately sends me an instant private message “Please help me- Is Jesus God?” This is probably the heart of every conversation or dialogue with Muslim friends across the globe. There were others (in the chat room) who were throwing a phony challenge without thinking “ If you can show me one verse in the bible were Jesus claimed to be God, I will become a Christian” (as if becoming a Christian is in their power). Other’s were merely accusing Christians of branding Jesus Christ (Isa al Masih) as God. Let me try to answer the above questions or query in short.
To respond to the above questions raised, we need to raise one very important question to answer it –
How does one claim to be God?
Is it by directly demanding “ I am God worship me?” Or by claiming to have the same attributes that of God and providing evidence of it?. My response will be limited to weather Jesus ever claimed to be God in the bible. one need to study in detail from the Bible how he gave the evidence of each of his claims. Let’s take a look at the above two possibilities. Some of the few possible reactions if someone claims to be God:
A. “I am God, worship me”
- That was a good joke- (rolling on the floor.)
- What ? Are you crazy, you need to be in a lunatic asylum, nonsense, crazy, nutcase, liar, you need a doctor etc.
- Oh really!-Prove that to me
- This is blasphemous-stone this fellow to death
- You are demon possessed/evil
The first three reactions could be a modern one when someone claims to be God. The last two could be made by the custodian of each particular religion as per their understanding of God. This is exactly how people reacted in the ancient and religious Jewish setup of Jesus times. They considered him to be blaspheming and demon possessed. Take a look at these dominant verses:The high priest said to him(Jesus), "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." “Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. (Matthew 26:63-65)They replied, “We’re stoning you (Jesus) not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God.” (John 10:33)But some of the teachers of religious law said to themselves, “That’s blasphemy! Does he think he’s (Jesus) God?”(Matthew 9:3)
Jesus said anyone who has seen me has seen (God) the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? (John 14:9) Jesus said “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life”.(John 3:16)
My Muslim friends may object by saying “claiming to be the son of God is not equivalent to calling oneself as God because there are many prophets and saints in the bible who are called and titled to be sons of God. The Israelites were anyway called as sons of God”-COOL. Here, I give them the full marks for their careful and sharp observation of the biblical fact. Should I?
A few thorny, spiky and intelligent questions arises and indeed need to be answered:
1.Why should the people of Jesus time be irked, fumed or raged to issue a diktat (decree) against him by branding him to be blasphemous, to be stoned to death or crucified and be called as demon possessed, if he is merely claiming to be sons of God like all other Israelites; when actually they knew the fact that God called the Israelites to be sons and daughters ?
2.Why should one tore their clothes (unless its smelly and old or the person is lunatic) when they heard Jesus claiming to be the Son of God?
3.Did Jesus merely claimed to be a son(s) of God? or Did he confidently declared to be The one and only Son of God? -hmmmm.- that’s right! Now we come back to the second possibility to our important question: how does one claim to be God?
B. By claiming to have the same attributes of God : This could be only understo
od if we know the attributes of God. Though I do not want to equate all the attributes of God in the Bible with the God of Quran, following are the few attributes, endorsed by both the Bible and the Quran. Let us see whether Jesus claimed any of (one) them to himself thus claiming to be God.
Lets begin to know the attributes of Allah from the pages of Quran and see weather Jesus ever claimed any (one) of them.
Lets begin to know the attributes of Allah from the pages of Quran and see weather Jesus ever claimed any (one) of them.
As per Quran, Allah have 99 attributes or titles or names which he alone is worthy of. Anyone apart from Allah, trying to claim these titles is blasphemous (in Islam). Let’s take a look at few of them.
As per The Quran, Allah is :
As-Salam :The Source of Peace (Yunus 10:25)
Al-Quddus :The Holy (Al Baqarah 2:252)
Al-Ghaffar :The Forgiving (Al Buruj 85:14-16)
Al-Hakam :The Judge (An-Nisa 4:58)
Ash-Shakur :The Rewarder of Thankfulness (An-Naml 27:40)
Al-Ba'ith :The Resurrector (Al-Hajj 25:5-6)
Al-h Haqq :The Truth (Yunus 10:31-32)
Al-Muhyi :The Giver of Life (Ar-Rum 30:50)
Al-Hayy :The Ever Living One (Al-Imran 31:1)
Al-Awwal :The First (Al-Qasas 28:69-70)
Al-Akhir :The Last (Al Hadid 57:3)
An-Nur :The Light (An-Nur 24:35)
Al-Baqi :The Everlasting One ( Ta-Ha 20:73)
Al-hasib : The accounter (An-nisa 4:86)
What could have been the reaction of primeval Islamic people, if Jesus were to stand in their midst and claim all the above attributes of allah? What would be your reaction my dear Muslim friends today?-Probably the same way the Jewish community of Jesus time reacted- “This man is claiming to be God- its blasphemous” or “I accept this fact and worship him as few did in Jesus time”. I now invite my Muslim friends to check from the noble Quran the (above) attributes of allah and from the holy Bible the same attributes that Jesus claimed it for himself.
As per The Bible, Jesus Christ claimed to be:
As-Salam :The Source of Peace (John 14:27)
Al-Quddus :The Holy/Sinless (John 8:46)
Al-Ghaffar :The Forgiving (Mark 2:5-7; Luke 7:48))
Al-Hakam :The Judge (John 5:22,27; John 12:48)
Ash-Shakur :The Rewarder of Thankfulness (Revelation 22:12)
Al-Ba'ith :The Resurrector (John 11:25)
Al-h Haqq :The Truth (John 14:6)
Al-Muhyi :The Giver of Life (John 17:2 ; 10:28)
Al-Hayy :The Ever Living One (Revelation 1:17-18)
Al-Awwal :The First (Revelation 1:17-18;22:13)
Al-Akhir :The Last (Revelation 1:17-18;22:13)
An-Nur :The Light (John 8:12; 9:5)
Al-Baqi :The Everlasting One
(Revelation1:8; 1:17-18; John 11:25 )
Al-hasib :The accounter (Revelation 2:23,26)
Who say’s Jesus is God? -Jesus Christ himself. Christians only affirm his claims, are convinced about it, is believed, proclaimed and thus worship him. In conclusion, if Jesus claims to have the same attributes of God, then my Muslim friends must settle on to what they must call him- God or only a prophet? (Note: a prophet does not claim to have the same attributes of God).Its time to make your important decision through prayer- why not Now?
(For more understanding on this subject you can read my article “who is Isa al Masih-prophet or more than a prophet?” or contact me on glow_isa@hotmail.com)
Those who read this article also read Who is Isa Al Masih (Jesus the messiah)- Prophet or More than a Prophet?
{moscomment}
My brother, you did it again! Simple, clear and precise to the point. May the Lord to remove the veil of those who read this and May he leads them to His Salvation. 🙂
Thoughtful & Precise! Keep up the good work..
Its very very clear that Jesus is God, not a prophet of God. I like your presentation. Very well done
dear brother
the 99 attributes mentioned in quran of allah is incomplete,as you don’t have the 100th one.
none of attributes or title say “GOD IS LOVE” which you have in BIBLE.
dear rajeshwar, As per my knowledge, the Quran nowere tells or entitles that God is love.Not all the 99 attributes of God are listed above but only the common ones which the Bible and Quran endorses to be entitled for God.The above article only makes a point to help understand “how Jesus claimed himself to be God” from both the perspective. 🙂
Hi,
Koran nowhere mentions that allah, the god of Mohammed, has 99 names or has only 99 names. This understanding is based on Hadith – Sahih Bukhari 8:419, Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah has ninety-nine Names, i.e., one hundred minus one, and whoever believes in their meanings and acts accordingly, will enter Paradise; and Allah is Witr (one) and loves ‘the Witr’.
Again, more than the absence of the exact word love for the Islamic god, it is the fact that he is alone that should trouble our Muslim friends.
If God is love, whom was He loving before ‘the begining’ (or creation). Triune God makes perfect sense in this UNI-Verse (unity in diversity). Jerry
Dear Brother Praveen,
May God bless you in theministry you are doing to reach the Muslim brothers through literature.
I will be with you in the word of prayer.
LOVE
Dear Praveen Raju, Good presentation on Jesus is God. God bless you.
Jesus is born to this world as the perfect human being. That means he is the becon of light of every men/women. Since he is the son of GOD, he is also got GOD’s attribute. The question why he didn’t he explicitly claimed that he was the GOD? To understand this concept, we need to understand what is trinity. Ask this question to anybody who wants to know what is trinity? Take any COIN, show one side and ask them what is this. They may say it is one side of the coin and 1/-Rs is written on this side. Show the other side and ask same question. Now show the “breadth” side and ask the final question, that without any of this 3 sides, this coin exists? Hope you understand! So God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 faces of single GOD.
So you mean one can claim to be God in two ways:
1. IF HE CLAIMS I AM GOD, WORSHIP ME: And when one claims in this style it Becomes nonsense or troublesome. Obviously it should apply to all godheads not only to Jesus. So why God (The Father) claiming throughout the bible, He is your God or He is one God and nobody else or He is God the Father (and nowhere Jesus says he is your God or he is one in three Gods or he is God the son). Isiah 43:10-11 ..Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior., Mark 12:29.. ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one
May be Jesus was in human form and he had fear of trouble (imagine God is having fear??). Why God (The Father) didn’t bother to tell in one place the same explicit statement regarding his son or holy Ghost to be also Gods the way he is declaring himself (in old testament when Jesus was not there to face the trouble)…may be because God (The Father) is a jealous God?
2. IF HE IS HAVING ATTRIBUTES OF GOD (OF COURSE WITH EVIDENCE): You have great misconception with this part. God’s attribute to him is definite which has been given to many in little or more quantity. Like He is The Forgiving, The Holy, The Peace, The Light. It never means they become God because of such attributes.
e.g. Jesus got the authority of forgiving Mark 2:7 But same bible says others like disciples can also forgive on getting authority the way Jesus did. Do the disciples also become God. John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
Similarly, is Jesus The Holy (only). You go through the bible many prophets, angels and even others are called holy and full of even holy ghost. Acts 5:32, Acts6:5, 2Tim1:14, Luke1:41 etc.
Similarly, is Jesus the Peace (only) ? What about all muslims which have been even NAMED with this root word (salm: peace). Not only that they have been conveying peace to each in other in the form of greeting . .Salam alaikum. .similar to what Jesus used to greet Shalom alaikum (in hebrew). Both means peace be upon you. But unfortunately Jesus also claims the opposite of this. Matthew 10 :34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” also see
Luke 19:27 “But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me”.
Do you believe these also to be God’s attribute.
Similarly, is Jesus the Light (only in definite way)? What about Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), He is being called as the light in the Quran ( Ch 5:15 and other places).
On & on….
SO YOUR REASONING IS WRONG INTERPRETATION AND MISPRESENTATION
If Jesus was God, why God (The Father) is completely silent (in calling him God) in the whole of old testament (before the advent of Jesus ) even though he was prophesized as Christ, son of man etc . Did God (The Father) forgot, or was jealous, or wanted to create confusion (mystery).…may be because God (The Father) is a jealous God? We don’t believe THE FORGETFUL or THE CONFUSION could be God’s attribute. 1Cor14:33 ..God is not the author of confusion..
Don’t tell that Jesus was called angel or like that because this word angel was there in old testament and new testament i.e. even after Jesus was sent to the world.
Now regarding your MISQUOTATIONS:
1. Matthew 26:63-65 =you mistranslated here “Yes, it is as you say,” sorry, you see your major translations KJV or RSV or even Douay-Rehims ( roman catholic). Everywhere it is translated as “You have said so”. There is no “yes” in this, not even in your so called original manuscript. For “yes” ,in greek the word is “NAI” which is not present here but present in other places where “yes” is there e.g. Mark 7:28, Romans 3:29..
2. John 10:33 = you even mistranslated here “You, a mere man, claim to be God” , sorry, you see your major translations KJV or RSV or even Douay-Rehims ( roman catholic). Everywhere it is translated as “You being man, claim to be God”. And to understand fully this verse you don’t stop here. It would have been stopped if Jesus had accepted this (that he was God), but it is not so, as you mispresented. But in the next verse Jesus is explaining the word god (doesn’t make sense if written in small or capital as original greek had only capitals no small letters, it is just the motive of translator to make it capital G or small g ; in many places in the bible even without any definite article god has been written as God) that it doesnot mean literal but METAPHORICAL. He is telling “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods?” and they (prophets and messengers on the word of God came) can be called god.. ” gods to whom the word of God came”. Actually this was the use of jewish language at that time.
3. Matthew 9:3 = Here Jesus was treating a paralytic man and he said to him that his sins were forgiven. On hearing that Jews, who were looking for problem alleged him that he is trying to be God as God only can forgive sins. On that Jesus explained to him that he was given power to forgive sins (as we saw before even disciples could do that) and that was easier than to make a paralytic walk. And God has GIVEN HIM THE POWER for same. And he made people understand and by the time we reach verse 8 people accepted this fact … 9:8 “But when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such authority to men”. Similar message in ACTS 2:22 “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man APPROVED OF GOD among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which GOD DID BY HIM in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know”
4. John 14:9 = Jesus said… anyone who has seen me has seen (God) the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? You know why Jesus said so, because 2 verses before he made it clear that by saying SEEING he meant KNOWING and still Philip asked to show the Father. i.e. John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye KNOW HIM, and HAVE SEEN HIM.
Why he said knowing Father is equivalent to seeing him? Because same bible tells no body has seen and nobody can see God. See this worse about God. 1Timothy 6:16 “… whom no man hath seen, nor can see ..”
5. John 3:16 = This verse reads like this in KJV
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
And in Douay-Rehims version(Roman Catholic) it reads
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, as to give his only BEGOTTEN Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.”
Also, this translation is nearest to the greek one (HO MONOGENES HUIOS = the only begotten son). So you have intentionally exaggerated by using “one and only”, instead of using “ the only begotten son”. Why so? Because Jesus is not the only begotten son as it is claimed but others like David is also God’s begotten son e.g. Psalm 2: 7 About David God said “..You are my son, today I have begotten you”.
And amazingly bible authors say this verse (John 3:16) to be an interpolation and there are new versions like RSV in which this verse is unceremoniously removed.
So, we saw all the verses quoted by the author is misguiding. And there is no unambiguous way to prove Jesus to be God.
1.Even peoples of that time believed him to be prophet and even his disciples believed him as prophet and Christ. e.g.
John 6:14 “ When the people saw the sign which he had done, they said, “This is indeed the PROPHET who is to come into the world “
Luke 24:19 discussion of his two disciples ..”And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a PROPHET mighty in deed and word before God and all the people”
2.Just before crucifixion all his disciples fled. Why? If they knew Jesus was God they would not have fled this way.
3.Book of Job gives one explicit statement about THE SON OF MAN (Jesus.. I think no doubt about this phrase for Jesus as it has been used more than 80 times for him in bible) can’t be God. (Douay-Rehims)
JOB 25:4 Can man be justified compared with God, or he that is born of a woman appear clean?
JOB 25:5 Behold even the moon doth not shine, and the stars are not pure in his sight.
JOB 25:6 How much less man that is rottenness (maggot) and THE SON OF MAN who is a worm?
See here. Nobody born of woman is clean (unlike his conception, every body knows that Jesus was in Mary’s womb and born normal birth). In God’s view, moon and son are nothing and man is just like maggot and Jesus is like worm. Imagine, what God is saying about ? another Godhead (Jesus).
3. If Jesus is God, he is coequal and coeternal BUT you see from the bible we know
*Christ was MADE lord by God.
*Jesus APPOINTED by God.
*Jesus OBEYED God
*Jesus did ACCORDING TO GOD’S will not his will
*Jesus PRAYED to God
*Jesus called God , “MY GOD”
Still Jesus is coequal to God. HEIGHT O PREJUDICES!
Your book says directly
He was prophet (Luke 24:19) – no Christian believes
He was a man like us (Hebrew2:17) – no Christian believes
He is man and had miraculous birth like Adam (1 Cor.15:45) – no Christian believes
So it is not amazing Jesus told about them
Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do WORSHIP me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
See this verse below
Matthew 13:13..Seeing they see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
If from a solid disc like coin one side is removed, that thing no longer exists. So what happened to God when Jesus(one side of the coin) was dead for three days and three nights.
Dear Mr. M Comforter,
Hope you are still around! If you are, I would like to bring to your notice that you have used objectionable and derogatory language against our faith in your posting no.10. Perhaps, this you have done inadvertently or out of ignorance or due to spiritual immaturity. I would like to give you a chance to repent of your mistakes in posting 10 and offer unconditional apologies to Christian readers in your next posting. By doing so you can assure me and the readers that you want to behave like a decent person who has values suitable for civilized society. Please try to understand if you use any terms or accusations or derogatory language in the following areas that would inevitably give me reason to treat you otherwise:
God’s word: the Bible and its writers
God’s nature: Trinity
God’s messengers: prophets and apostles
God’s people’s faith: Protestant Evangelical Christian beliefs
If you have any question or difficulty in understanding the above areas please ask us in a civilized manner and I will do my best to help you in a language acceptable for both of us. I will assure you as long as you behave yourself I will not use the derogatory and objectionable language against your faith, prophet, book or god. However, if you use any derogatory or objectionable or belittling words or phrases in the above areas in your future postings then that shows us and the respected readers that you are not a person who is willing to do meaningful and fruitful discussion rather trying to pick on us due to some serious spiritual problems. That forces me to stoop down to your level of decency and give me give me enough reason to use appropriate terms and phrases to refer to your faith, prophet, god, umma and books which might hurt the feelings of the Muslim readers. This I hate to do because I have quite a number of very good Muslim friends whom I love and respect. I don’t want to hurt their religious feelings. Therefore be assured that I don’t do such a thing unless you force me to do. I hope you understand my stand and offer in this dialogue.
Here I will answer your comments…
You wrote:
“So you mean one can claim to be God in two ways:
1. IF HE CLAIMS I AM GOD, WORSHIP ME: And when one claims in this style it Becomes nonsense or troublesome. Obviously it should apply to all godheads not only to Jesus. So why God (The Father) claiming throughout the bible, He is your God or He is one God and nobody else or He is God the Father (and nowhere Jesus says he is your God or he is one in three Gods or he is God the son). Isiah 43:10-11 ..Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior, Mark 12:29.. ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one”
My answer:
1. One may claim ‘I am God, worship me’ but that does not necessarily mean that that person is God! There are so many people in India alone claimed this and is continuing even today! Nevertheless, only the true God can legitimately claim saying, ‘I am God, worship Me.’ If the claim is from the true God then He will definitely provide some important credential to substantiate that claim.
2. As far as the Godhead is concerned it has something to do with the nature of God. According to the Bible ‘God is One’ (Heb: echad). However, it is revealed in the Bible that there are three persons within the Godhead but NOT outside of Godhead, namely, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. When God says ‘I am God, worship Me’ that is applicable to all persons in the Godhead—Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Another example: if the Bible says, ‘God created the heaven and earth’ that means all the persons of the Godhead are involved in that statement. In other words, Father created the heaven and earth, Son created the heaven and earth, Holy Spirit created the heaven and earth.
3. In the above article the author is focusing on Jesus who is the ‘incarnate-God.’ The person of Son in the Godhead became man at some point in history and born as a baby boy to virgin Mary in Bethlehem. In other words, Son took on human form and nature without liquidating His divine nature.
4. The purpose of Son’s incarnation is NOT to go around and proclaim that He is ‘God in human form and nature’ or convince people around him that He is indeed God. The main purpose of the incarnation is to provide humanity with ‘salvation’ through atoning death and sacrifice. This is what had been prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures (Old Testament) prior to Jesus’ birth and this is what has been fulfilled through Son’s incarnation i.e. Jesus’ life.
5. Jesus (the incarnate-Son or incarnate-God) is a man, a prophet, the Messiah and God. But none of that he claims directly. This doesn’t prove that He is not a man or a prophet or the Messiah or God. Yes, Jesus did not claim directly ‘I am God and worship me.’ In the same way, Jesus did not claim directly ‘I am the Messiah and call me like that.’ So what do these two statements prove? The first statement proves, according to STUPID REASONING, that Jesus is not God. The second statement proves, according to the same kind of reasoning, that Jesus is not Messiah either!
6. God (Father and Holy Spirit) says: But of the Son He (God) says, “Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved the righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore GOD, THY God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy companions. And, “Thou, LORD, in the beginning dist lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thy hands; They will perish, but thou remainest; And they all will become old as a garment, and as a mantle thou wilt roll them up; as a garment they will also be changed. But thou art the same, and thy years will not come to an end.” (Hebrews 1:8-12)
7. Although Jesus Himself did not claim certain titles and attributes for Himself yet He gave enough evidence to make no mistake to identify Him as what He really is.
You wrote:
“May be Jesus was in human form and he had fear of trouble (imagine God is having fear??). Why God (The Father) didn’t bother to tell in one place the same explicit statement regarding his son or holy Ghost to be also Gods the way he is declaring himself (in old testament when Jesus was not there to face the trouble)…may be because God (The Father) is a jealous God?”
My answer:
1. Here you are trying to mock Christian faith by saying “May be Jesus was in human form and he had fear of trouble (imagine God is having fear.” Remember you owe an apology to the Christian readers for this kind of approach in your arguments. I hope next time you will offer your apologies for this.
2. You asked, “Why God (The Father) didn’t bother to tell in one place the same explicit statement regarding his son or holy Ghost to be also Gods the way he is declaring himself (in old testament when Jesus was not there to face the trouble)”
Please don’t forget that in the Old Testament when the scriptures use the words ‘God’ or ‘Yahweh’ in general all the three persons of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are represented there. For example, you may check out for yourself in these places: However, in some cases the context gives the clues as to which one of the Godhead is excluded (if any member of the Godhead is excluded) or focused (if any member of the Godhead is focused) in a given context.
For your information it is God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) who declared again and again in the Old Testament saying, ‘I am God and there is none.’ It is not stated solely by the Father excluding the other members of the Godhead, but God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
You wrote:
“2. IF HE IS HAVING ATTRIBUTES OF GOD (OF COURSE WITH EVIDENCE): You have great misconception with this part. God’s attribute to him is definite which has been given to many in little or more quantity. Like He is The Forgiving, The Holy, The Peace, The Light. It never means they become God because of such attributes. e.g. Jesus got the authority of forgiving Mark 2:7 But same bible says others like disciples can also forgive on getting authority the way Jesus did. Do the disciples also become God. John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. Similarly, is Jesus The Holy (only). You go through the bible many prophets, angels and even others are called holy and full of even holy ghost. Acts 5:32, Acts6:5, 2Tim1:14, Luke1:41 etc. Similarly, is Jesus the Peace (only) ? What about all muslims which have been even NAMED with this root word (salm: peace). Not only that they have been conveying peace to each in other in the form of greeting . .Salam alaikum. .similar to what Jesus used to greet Shalom alaikum (in hebrew). Both means peace be upon you. But unfortunately Jesus also claims the opposite of this. Matthew 10 :34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” also see Luke 19:27 “But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me”. Do you believe these also to be God’s attribute.
Similarly, is Jesus the Light (only in definite way)? What about Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), He is being called as the light in the Quran ( Ch 5:15 and other places). On & on….
SO YOUR REASONING IS WRONG” INTERPRETATION AND MISPRESENTATION”
My answer:
As the author of the above article says if a person possesses divine attributes then it is obvious that that person is God. But you objected saying, “You have great misconception with this part. God’s attribute to him is definite which has been given to many in little or more quantity. Like He is The Forgiving, The Holy, The Peace, The Light. It never means they become God because of such attributes.”
God’s attributes are absolute and perfect. Human beings have been given some of the attributes of God in some finite measure, but not absolutely. If a person, Jesus Christ in this case, is found with God’s absolute attributes then it is beyond any shadow of doubt that that person is God. God’s word the Bible reveals that Jesus Christ is God’s eternal word (The Logos) which is part of God (In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God—John 1:1). That Word (The Logos) took on human form and nature through ‘incarnation’ (And the Logos became flesh, and dwelt among us…John 1:14). Jesus Christ is incarnate-God or incarnate-Logos. As incarnate-God He has both divine attributes and human attributes (…Jesus Christ, who although existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped…taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men—Philippians 2:5-7). Many get confused for failing to see the difference between ‘God’ and ‘incarnate-God’ and come up with illogical questions regarding the simultaneous display of both human and divine natures in one person i.e. Jesus Christ.
Some important attributes of God are as follows…
1. Omnipresence: Psalms 139:7-12
2. Omniscience: Jeremiah 17:10 (cf.2Cro.6:30&1Kin.8:39)
3. Omnipotence: Luke 1:37
4. Immutability: Malachi 3:6; James 1:17
5. Eternality: Isaiah 57:15
6. Justice: Deuteronomy 32:4; Isaiah 26:21; Jeremiah 44:29
7. Love: 1 John 4:8,16
God’s word the Bible bears witness to the fact that all of them can be traced in Jesus’ other than human nature, but not necessarily in his human nature, giving undeniable evidence to His divinity:
1. Omnipresence: Matt.28:20, 18:20; Jn.14:23, 17:23,26; Rom.8:9-10; 2Cor.13:5; Col.1:27, 3:11; Eph.1:23;
2. Omniscience: Matt.9:4; Mark 2:8; Jn.2:25; 16:30-31; 21:17; Rev.2:18, 23=Jer.17:10;
3. Omnipotence: Matt.28:18 (cf.Phil.2:7); Heb.1:3
4. Immutability: Heb.1:12, 13:8
5. Eternality: Jn.1:1; 2Tim.4:18; Heb.1:8, 7:3; Mic.5:2
6. Justice: Matthew 25:31-46; Luke 13: 24-30, 19:12-27; John 5:30
7. Love: Eph.3:19, 5:2; 1Jn.3:16; Jn.15:9,13
By the way, meeting out punishment is part of justice. God punishes people directly (on judgment day sending into hell) and indirectly through nature or human institutions. Punishing itself does not go against God’s nature, but creating people to be punished in hell does go against God’s nature.
You wrote:
“If Jesus was God, why God (The Father) is completely silent (in calling him God) in the whole of old testament (before the advent of Jesus) even though he was prophesized as Christ, son of man etc . Did God (The Father) forgot, or was jealous, or wanted to create confusion (mystery).…may be because God (The Father) is a jealous God? We don’t believe THE FORGETFUL or THE CONFUSION could be God’s attribute. 1Cor14:33 ..God is not the author of confusion.. Don’t tell that Jesus was called angel or like that because this word angel was there in old testament and new testament i.e. even after Jesus was sent to the world.”
My answer:
You wrote, “Did God (The Father) forgot, or was jealous, or wanted to create confusion (mystery)… may be because God (The Father) is a jealous God? We don’t believe THE FORGETFUL or THE CONFUSION could be God’s attribute.”
Again, here you have gone beyond the limits of decency. You have tried to make fun of God’s truth by your language and questions. But I will give you another chance to repent of this cheap approach.
The Old Testament mentions God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) inclusive of all the persons of the Godhead. You forget that truth and as a result of that your mind reels in confusion, but you blame God’s word the Bible for your own confusion that stems solely from your forgetfulness. We feel sorry for you. May the true God help you out of your self-inflicted confusion. As you quoted, “God is no the author of confusion,” but the forgetful human mind is.
You wrote:
“Now regarding your MISQUOTATIONS:
… John 3:16 = This verse reads like this in KJV
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
And in Douay-Rehims version(Roman Catholic) it reads
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, as to give his only BEGOTTEN Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.”
Also, this translation is nearest to the greek one (HO MONOGENES HUIOS = the only begotten son). So you have intentionally exaggerated by using “one and only”, instead of using “ the only begotten son”. Why so? Because Jesus is not the only begotten son as it is claimed but others like David is also God’s begotten son e.g. Psalm 2: 7 About David God said “..You are my son, today I have begotten you”.
And amazingly bible authors say this verse (John 3:16) to be an interpolation and there are new versions like RSV in which this verse is unceremoniously removed.
So, we saw all the verses quoted by the author is misguiding. And there is no unambiguous way to prove Jesus to be God.”
My answer:
1. You wrote, “And amazingly bible authors say this verse (John 3:16) to be an interpolation and there are new versions like RSV in which this verse is unceremoniously removed.”
Again you did this in your ignorance and immaturity. I’ll wait for your apologies in your next posting for making such comment.
2. You got some problem with the Greek phrase, “ho monogenes huios.” This is no surprise to us. Because many Muslim apologists have tried unsuccessfully to confuse their followers. That can work with the minds that have already got some forgetfulness and confusion. But not with the seekers of the truth and honest readers. Please, don’t simply copy and paste their lies, instead ask if you can’t understand. We will help you, if you have a willing and teachable mind and heart. Let me try to help you here again…
Greek words:
‘monos’ = only
‘huios’ = son
‘genos’ = kind/type
‘gennao’ = begat/brought forth
‘monogennetos’ = only begotten
‘monos huios’ = only son
‘monogenes’ = only one of its/his kind
Strictly speaking if you want to say just ‘only son’ in Greek then that would be ‘monos huios.’ In Greek ‘monos’ is ‘only’ and ‘huios’ is ‘son.’ But here in the verse we see ‘monogenes huios.’
The word ‘monogenes’ comes from two Greek words—‘monos’ (only) and ‘genos’ (kind/type). Although the word ‘monogenes’ does contain the meaning ‘only’ it conveys a wider meaning than just ‘only’ as it contains ‘genos’ also. I gave in my previous posting the meaning of ‘monogenes’ as ‘unique’ or ‘only one of his/its kind.’ According to the Enhanced Strong’s Greek Lexicon the word ‘monogenes’ means single of its kind, only (used of only sons or daughters [viewed in relation to their parents]; used of Christ).
In Greek the word for ‘begat/brought forth’ is ‘gennao.’ Both ‘huios’ (son) and ‘gennao’ (begat/brought forth) have been used in the Bible literally as well as metaphorically (I hope you still can understand the difference between literal and metaphorical). Here are some examples:
a) ‘gennao’ (begat)—literal (Matthew 1:16; Luke 1:13), metaphorical (John 3:5; Galatians 4:24)
b) ‘huios’ (son)—literal (Luke 2:7; John 4:5), metaphorical (Acts 4:36; Mark 3:17)
In the same way the word ‘monogenes’ has been used in the Bible with reference to both literal son/daughter (Luke 7:12; Luke 8:42; Luke 9:3 and metaphorical son (John 1:18; John 3:16; John 3: 18
3. According to John 3:16 Jesus is the ‘monogenes huios’ (only one of His kind) of God. Although God has other sons and daughters or children metaphorically who are created, Jesus is the only one of His kind Son in the sense that He was not a created being rather brought forth from within Godhead. Jesus Christ is not just a Son of God, but the unique Son of God.
4. In Psalm 2: 7 David wrote that God said, “..You are my son, today I have begotten you”. This is a prophecy of the coming ‘Messiah.’ If you don’t understand it please ask us but don’t venture to comment as you wish.
5. The Greek phrase ‘monogenes huios’ is neither an interpolation not is it removed from the Bible.
You wrote:
“1.Even peoples of that time believed him to be prophet and even his disciples believed him as prophet and Christ. e.g.
John 6:14 “ When the people saw the sign which he had done, they said, “This is indeed the PROPHET who is to come into the world ”
Luke 24:19 discussion of his two disciples ..”And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a PROPHET mighty in deed and word before God and all the people”
My answer:
Who says He was not a PROPHET? Yes, Jesus was a PROPHET. But not just a PROPHET. He was more than a PROPHET.
You wrote:
“2.Just before crucifixion all his disciples fled. Why? If they knew Jesus was God they would not have fled this way.”
My answer:
Although the disciples knew Jesus was more than a PROPHET they had not realized that He is God until His resurrection.
You wrote:
“3.Book of Job gives one explicit statement about THE SON OF MAN (Jesus.. I think no doubt about this phrase for Jesus as it has been used more than 80 times for him in bible) can’t be God. (Douay-Rehims)
JOB 25:4 Can man be justified compared with God, or he that is born of a woman appear clean?
JOB 25:5 Behold even the moon doth not shine, and the stars are not pure in his sight.
JOB 25:6 How much less man that is rottenness (maggot) and THE SON OF MAN who is a worm?
See here. Nobody born of woman is clean (unlike his conception, every body knows that Jesus was in Mary’s womb and born normal birth). In God’s view, moon and son are nothing and man is just like maggot and Jesus is like worm. Imagine, what God is saying about ? another Godhead (Jesus).
My answer:
Job from 25:4-5 is talking about man in general.
In verse 6 Job is asking,
“How much less man that is rottenness (maggot)
and the son of man who is a worm?”
In the above verse the words ‘man’ and ‘the son of man’ are one and the same that Job is referring to. As is the custom of the Hebrew poetic language (parallelism; if you want to know more about the Hebrew parallelism please visit http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/23_parallel.html) the same is repeated with emphasis in the second stanza. Because the phrase ‘son of man’ in the second stanza is referring to the word ‘man’ in the first stanza it is supplied with the definite article ‘the.’ Therefore, ‘the son of man’ in Job has nothing to do with ‘The Son of man’ the title that Jesus claimed.
You wrote:
“3. If Jesus is God, he is coequal and coeternal BUT you see from the bible we know
*Christ was MADE lord by God.
*Jesus APPOINTED by God.
*Jesus OBEYED God
*Jesus did ACCORDING TO GOD’S will not his will
*Jesus PRAYED to God
*Jesus called God , “MY GOD”
Still Jesus is coequal to God. HEIGHT O PREJUDICES!
Your book says directly
He was prophet (Luke 24:19) – no Christian believes
He was a man like us (Hebrew2:17) – no Christian believes
He is man and had miraculous birth like Adam (1 Cor.15:45) – no Christian believes
My answer:
1. You wrote, “Still Jesus is coequal to God. HEIGHT O PREJUDICES!”
I am sure you are still continuing in your ignorance or immaturity. No problem! I don’t want to respond to this the way you deserve. I’ll wait for your apologies in your next posting for this comment.
2. Again you forgot the fact that Jesus Christ is the ‘incarnate-God.’ Therefore, you are getting confused by mixing up His human and divine natures. Yes, He was man, prophet and Messiah. At the same time, He was God. If you don’t understand it here is an illustration to help you…
The Bible does say that Jesus is man. If the Bible says Jesus is fully man it doesn’t automatically mean that he is NOT God. For your sake let me give you a simple example here although I doubt if it gets into your head. If I show you a glass full of water and you call it a glass of water that’s correct. But that does not automatically exclude other possible invisible dissolved elements in the glass such as sugar or salt along with the water. Humanity and deity are not mutually exclusive natures in Jesus Christ.
You wrote:
“So it is not amazing Jesus told about them
Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do WORSHIP me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. See this verse below Matthew 13:13..Seeing they see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
My answer:
Yes, Jesus warned true worshipers of God not to follow those who made up their religion based on human traditions (in Arabic ‘hadiths’).
Yes, Jesus commented on the people who do not understand who the true God is and what His gift of salvation is. Therefore, He said:
“With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah that says:
‘You will indeed listen, but never understand,
and you will indeed look, but never perceive.
15 For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and their ears are hard of hearing,
and they have shut their eyes;
so that they might not look with their eyes,
and listen with their ears,
and understand with their heart and turn—
and I would heal them.’ (Matthew 13:14-15)
Hope you will see yourself in the above words of Jesus and repent of your falsity. Looking forward to hearing from you,
Adil.
Dear M Comforter,
In your posting number 11 you wrote:
“ If from a solid disc like coin one side is removed, that thing no longer exists. So what happened to God when Jesus (one side of the coin) was dead for three days and three nights.”
My answer:
1. Fair enough! Although your question is a childish question, you spared yourself from breaking decency rules in this dialogue. I appreciate you for this carefulness. Because of this carefulness I assure you that I will not break decency rules in my answers here.
2. Your analogy of ‘two sides of a solid disc like coin’ to God and Jesus does carry ‘some’ validity. I give you full marks for that.
3. After coming up with a somewhat valid example of God and Jesus unity you miserably failed to ask a meaningful or valid question. In fact, you made unreasonable and false assumptions in order to raise your invalid and meaningless question. I’ll try to explain that to you now. Please make sure you understand my explanation properly…
a. According to God’s word, the Bible, God is one (Heb: echad) and the word ‘God’ in general is represented by the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). To help my Muslim friends I would like to put it this way: Father is the Being of God, Son is the Power of God and Holy Spirit is the Nature of God. In other words, God is ONE yet He has a Being, Power and Nature.
b. In your analogy of a solid coin, for your sake I’ll I agree that the two sides of the same coin represent Father and Son alternately. But your utterly false assumption that ‘one side is removed’ has never happened nor can ever happen.
c. In your question you made another false assumption about death. When a human being dies that’s not the end of that person. Death is not annihilation or cessation of being. Death according to the Bible is the separation of body, soul and spirit. Body returns to the earth (decomposes into its basic elements), spirit returns to God and the soul (the person) waits in an assigned place till the ‘Last Judgment.’
d. Finally your question which is based on false assumptions is: So what happened to God when Jesus (one side of the coin) was dead for three days and three nights?
NOTHING! At His death Jesus body, soul and spirit got separated. His body was kept in the sepulcher, His spirit went to Father and His soul went to ‘Hades’/’Sheol’ (place of the departed souls). After His death Jesus DID NOT CEASE TO EXIST!
4. Let me use your imperfect analogy and try to give you some clarity of ‘incarnation.’
Let us assume that Father and Son are represented by two sides of a solid coin. At the ‘incarnation’ one side of the coin (Jesus) was not removed from the coin, but it took on a new form and nature without losing its original form and nature. For example, we have covered that one side with a lump of wax. For our naked eye one side of the coin is invisible, yet it is intact. What we see is the wax. Whether the wax is removed or retained on the coin the side of the coin is still intact. In the same way, when the Son (Power of God or Logos) took on human form and nature His original form and nature as God remained intact. At His death on the cross He was separated from His physical body that He had taken on Himself at His birth on earth, like the wax so to speak.
5. With the above explanation I hope you realized your misunderstanding of Jesus’ natures and incarnation. Now let me ask you a question. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Prophet of God and not only that but He is the LAST PROPHET sent by God. Same Jesus Christ warned us of false prophets and imposters who would lead many astray. Yet Muslims believe that Muhammad is the last prophet. Please explain to me, why do you believe that Muhammad is a prophet let alone the last prophet? Don’t tell me that that’s what you have been taught from your childhood or your mullah told you or you are a Muslim that’s why you believe it etc.
Looking forward to reading your decent and rational answer for my above question.
Praying for you,
Adil.
(Dear ‘Sakshitimes.org’ the following response I sent you much before sending my posting number 12, but for some reasons you did not publish it till now. If it has anything objectionable please let me know, if not please publish it at the earliest. One more request. Please make sure your website does not allow Muslim apologists to misuse and abuse the freedom you give them in publishing objectionable and offensive comments against the Bible and Christian faith. Thanks a lot for your website that is providing fantastic opportunities to expose the LIES, HYPOCRISY, WICKEDNESS and STUPIDITY of Muslim apologists against the Bible and Christian faith. Your brother Adil.)
Dear Mr. M Comforter,
Hope you are still around! If you are, I would like to bring to your notice that you have used objectionable and derogatory language against our faith in your posting no.10. Perhaps, this you have done inadvertently or out of ignorance or due to spiritual immaturity. I would like to give you a chance to repent of your mistakes in posting 10 and offer unconditional apologies to Christian readers in your next posting. By doing so you can assure me and the readers that you want to behave like a decent person who has values suitable for civilized society. Please try to understand if you use any terms or accusations or derogatory language in the following areas that would inevitably give me reason to treat you otherwise…
God’s word: the Bible and its writers
God’s nature: Trinity
God’s messengers: prophets and apostles
God’s people’s faith: Protestant Evangelical Christian beliefs
If you have any question or difficulty in understanding the above areas please ask us in a civilized manner and I will do my best to help you in a language acceptable for both of us. I will assure you as long as you behave yourself I will not use the derogatory and objectionable language against your faith, prophet, book or god. However, if you use any derogatory or objectionable or belittling words or phrases in the above areas in your future postings then that shows us and the respected readers that you are not a person who is willing to do meaningful and fruitful discussion rather trying to pick on us due to some serious spiritual problems. That forces me to stoop down to your level of decency and give me give me enough reason to use appropriate terms and phrases to refer to your faith, prophet, god, umma and books which might hurt the feelings of the Muslim readers. This I hate to do because I have quite a number of very good Muslim friends whom I love and respect. I don’t want to hurt their religious feelings. Therefore be assured that I don’t do such a thing unless you force me to do. I hope you understand my stand and offer in this dialogue.
Here I will answer your comments in the posting number 10…
You wrote:
“So you mean one can claim to be God in two ways:
1. IF HE CLAIMS I AM GOD, WORSHIP ME: And when one claims in this style it Becomes nonsense or troublesome. Obviously it should apply to all godheads not only to Jesus. So why God (The Father) claiming throughout the bible, He is your God or He is one God and nobody else or He is God the Father (and nowhere Jesus says he is your God or he is one in three Gods or he is God the son). Isiah 43:10-11 ..Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior, Mark 12:29.. ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one”
My answer:
1. One may claim ‘I am God, worship me’ but that does not necessarily mean that that person is God! There are so many people in India alone claimed this and is continuing even today! Nevertheless, only the true God can legitimately claim saying, ‘I am God, worship Me.’ If the claim is from the true God then He will definitely provide some important credential to substantiate that claim.
2. As far as the Godhead is concerned it has something to do with the nature of God. According to the Bible ‘God is One’ (Heb: echad). However, it is revealed in the Bible that there are three persons within the Godhead but NOT outside of Godhead, namely, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. When God says ‘I am God, worship Me’ that is applicable to all persons in the Godhead—Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Another example: if the Bible says, ‘God created the heaven and earth’ that means all the persons of the Godhead are involved in that statement. In other words, Father created the heaven and earth, Son created the heaven and earth, Holy Spirit created the heaven and earth.
3. In the above article the author is focusing on Jesus who is the ‘incarnate-God.’ The person of Son in the Godhead became man at some point in history and born as a baby boy to virgin Mary in Bethlehem. In other words, Son took on human form and nature without liquidating His divine nature.
4. The purpose of Son’s incarnation is NOT to go around and proclaim that He is ‘God in human form and nature’ or convince people around him that He is indeed God. The main purpose of the incarnation is to provide humanity with ‘salvation’ through atoning death and sacrifice. This is what had been prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures (Old Testament) prior to Jesus’ birth and this is what has been fulfilled through Son’s incarnation i.e. Jesus’ life.
5. Jesus (the incarnate-Son or incarnate-God) is a man, a prophet, the Messiah and God. But none of that he claims directly. This doesn’t prove that He is not a man or a prophet or the Messiah or God. Yes, Jesus did not claim directly ‘I am God and worship me.’ In the same way, Jesus did not claim directly ‘I am the Messiah and call me like that.’ So what do these two statements prove? The first statement proves, according to STUPID REASONING, that Jesus is not God. The second statement proves, according to the same kind of reasoning, that Jesus is not Messiah either!
6. God (Father and Holy Spirit) says: But of the Son He (God) says, “Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved the righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore GOD, THY God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy companions. And, “Thou, LORD, in the beginning dist lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thy hands; They will perish, but thou remainest; And they all will become old as a garment, and as a mantle thou wilt roll them up; as a garment they will also be changed. But thou art the same, and thy years will not come to an end.” (Hebrews 1:8-12)
7. Although Jesus Himself did not claim certain titles and attributes for Himself yet He gave enough evidence to make no mistake to identify Him as what He really is.
You wrote:
“May be Jesus was in human form and he had fear of trouble (imagine God is having fear??). Why God (The Father) didn’t bother to tell in one place the same explicit statement regarding his son or holy Ghost to be also Gods the way he is declaring himself (in old testament when Jesus was not there to face the trouble)…may be because God (The Father) is a jealous God?”
My answer:
1. Here you are trying to mock Christian faith by saying “May be Jesus was in human form and he had fear of trouble (imagine God is having fear.” Remember you owe an apology to the Christian readers for this kind of approach in your arguments. I hope next time you will offer your apologies for this.
2. You asked, “Why God (The Father) didn’t bother to tell in one place the same explicit statement regarding his son or holy Ghost to be also Gods the way he is declaring himself (in old testament when Jesus was not there to face the trouble)”
Please don’t forget that in the Old Testament when the scriptures use the words ‘God’ or ‘Yahweh’ in general all the three persons of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are represented there. For example, you may check out for yourself in these places: However, in some cases the context gives the clues as to which one of the Godhead is excluded (if any member of the Godhead is excluded) or focused (if any member of the Godhead is focused) in a given context.
For your information it is God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) who declared again and again in the Old Testament saying, ‘I am God and there is none.’ It is not stated solely by the Father excluding the other members of the Godhead, but God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
You wrote:
“2. IF HE IS HAVING ATTRIBUTES OF GOD (OF COURSE WITH EVIDENCE): You have great misconception with this part. God’s attribute to him is definite which has been given to many in little or more quantity. Like He is The Forgiving, The Holy, The Peace, The Light. It never means they become God because of such attributes. e.g. Jesus got the authority of forgiving Mark 2:7 But same bible says others like disciples can also forgive on getting authority the way Jesus did. Do the disciples also become God. John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. Similarly, is Jesus The Holy (only). You go through the bible many prophets, angels and even others are called holy and full of even holy ghost. Acts 5:32, Acts6:5, 2Tim1:14, Luke1:41 etc. Similarly, is Jesus the Peace (only) ? What about all muslims which have been even NAMED with this root word (salm: peace). Not only that they have been conveying peace to each in other in the form of greeting . .Salam alaikum. .similar to what Jesus used to greet Shalom alaikum (in hebrew). Both means peace be upon you. But unfortunately Jesus also claims the opposite of this. Matthew 10 :34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” also see Luke 19:27 “But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me”. Do you believe these also to be God’s attribute.
Similarly, is Jesus the Light (only in definite way)? What about Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), He is being called as the light in the Quran ( Ch 5:15 and other places). On & on….
SO YOUR REASONING IS WRONG” INTERPRETATION AND MISPRESENTATION”
My answer:
As the author of the above article says if a person possesses divine attributes then it is obvious that that person is God. But you objected saying, “You have great misconception with this part. God’s attribute to him is definite which has been given to many in little or more quantity. Like He is The Forgiving, The Holy, The Peace, The Light. It never means they become God because of such attributes.”
God’s attributes are absolute and perfect. Human beings have been given some of the attributes of God in some finite measure, but not absolutely. If a person, Jesus Christ in this case, is found with God’s absolute attributes then it is beyond any shadow of doubt that that person is God. God’s word the Bible reveals that Jesus Christ is God’s eternal word (The Logos) which is part of God (In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God—John 1:1). That Word (The Logos) took on human form and nature through ‘incarnation’ (And the Logos became flesh, and dwelt among us…John 1:14). Jesus Christ is incarnate-God or incarnate-Logos. As incarnate-God He has both divine attributes and human attributes (…Jesus Christ, who although existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped…taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men—Philippians 2:5-7). Many get confused for failing to see the difference between ‘God’ and ‘incarnate-God’ and come up with illogical questions regarding the simultaneous display of both human and divine natures in one person i.e. Jesus Christ.
Some important attributes of God are as follows…
1. Omnipresence: Psalms 139:7-12
2. Omniscience: Jeremiah 17:10 (cf.2Cro.6:30&1Kin.8:39)
3. Omnipotence: Luke 1:37
4. Immutability: Malachi 3:6; James 1:17
5. Eternality: Isaiah 57:15
6. Justice: Deuteronomy 32:4; Isaiah 26:21; Jeremiah 44:29
7. Love: 1 John 4:8,16
God’s word the Bible bears witness to the fact that all of them can be traced in Jesus’ other than human nature, but not necessarily in his human nature, giving undeniable evidence to His divinity:
1. Omnipresence: Matt.28:20, 18:20; Jn.14:23, 17:23,26; Rom.8:9-10; 2Cor.13:5; Col.1:27, 3:11; Eph.1:23;
2. Omniscience: Matt.9:4; Mark 2:8; Jn.2:25; 16:30-31; 21:17; Rev.2:18, 23=Jer.17:10;
3. Omnipotence: Matt.28:18 (cf.Phil.2:7); Heb.1:3
4. Immutability: Heb.1:12, 13:8
5. Eternality: Jn.1:1; 2Tim.4:18; Heb.1:8, 7:3; Mic.5:2
6. Justice: Matthew 25:31-46; Luke 13: 24-30, 19:12-27; John 5:30
7. Love: Eph.3:19, 5:2; 1Jn.3:16; Jn.15:9,13
By the way, meeting out punishment is part of justice. God punishes people directly (on judgment day sending into hell) and indirectly through nature or human institutions. Punishing itself does not go against God’s nature, but creating people to be punished in hell does go against God’s nature.
You wrote:
“If Jesus was God, why God (The Father) is completely silent (in calling him God) in the whole of old testament (before the advent of Jesus) even though he was prophesized as Christ, son of man etc . Did God (The Father) forgot, or was jealous, or wanted to create confusion (mystery).…may be because God (The Father) is a jealous God? We don’t believe THE FORGETFUL or THE CONFUSION could be God’s attribute. 1Cor14:33 ..God is not the author of confusion..
Don’t tell that Jesus was called angel or like that because this word angel was there in old testament and new testament i.e. even after Jesus was sent to the world.”
My answer:
You wrote, “Did God (The Father) forgot, or was jealous, or wanted to create confusion (mystery)… may be because God (The Father) is a jealous God? We don’t believe THE FORGETFUL or THE CONFUSION could be God’s attribute.”
Again, here you have gone beyond the limits of decency. You have tried to make fun of God’s truth by your language and questions. But I will give you another chance to repent of this cheap approach.
The Old Testament mentions God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) inclusive of all the persons of the Godhead. You forget that truth and as a result of that your mind reels in confusion, but you blame God’s word the Bible for your own confusion that stems solely from your forgetfulness. We feel sorry for you. May the true God help you out of your self-inflicted confusion. As you quoted, “God is no the author of confusion,” but the forgetful human mind is.
You wrote:
“Now regarding your MISQUOTATIONS:
… John 3:16 = This verse reads like this in KJV
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
And in Douay-Rehims version(Roman Catholic) it reads
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, as to give his only BEGOTTEN Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.”
Also, this translation is nearest to the greek one (HO MONOGENES HUIOS = the only begotten son). So you have intentionally exaggerated by using “one and only”, instead of using “ the only begotten son”. Why so? Because Jesus is not the only begotten son as it is claimed but others like David is also God’s begotten son e.g. Psalm 2: 7 About David God said “..You are my son, today I have begotten you”.
And amazingly bible authors say this verse (John 3:16) to be an interpolation and there are new versions like RSV in which this verse is unceremoniously removed.
So, we saw all the verses quoted by the author is misguiding. And there is no unambiguous way to prove Jesus to be God.”
My answer:
1. You wrote, “And amazingly bible authors say this verse (John 3:16) to be an interpolation and there are new versions like RSV in which this verse is unceremoniously removed.”
Again you did this in your ignorance and immaturity. I’ll wait for your apologies in your next posting for making such comment.
2. You got some problem with the Greek phrase, “ho monogenes huios.” This is no surprise to us. Because many Muslim apologists have tried unsuccessfully to confuse their followers. That can work with the minds that have already got some forgetfulness and confusion. But not with the seekers of the truth and honest readers. Please, don’t simply copy and paste their lies, instead ask if you can’t understand. We will help you, if you have a willing and teachable mind and heart. Let me try to help you here again…
Greek words:
‘monos’ = only
‘huios’ = son
‘genos’ = kind/type
‘gennao’ = begat/brought forth
‘monogennetos’ = only begotten
‘monos huios’ = only son
‘monogenes’ = only one of its/his kind
Strictly speaking if you want to say just ‘only son’ in Greek then that would be ‘monos huios.’ In Greek ‘monos’ is ‘only’ and ‘huios’ is ‘son.’ But here in the verse we see ‘monogenes huios.’
The word ‘monogenes’ comes from two Greek words—‘monos’ (only) and ‘genos’ (kind/type). Although the word ‘monogenes’ does contain the meaning ‘only’ it conveys a wider meaning than just ‘only’ as it contains ‘genos’ also. I gave in my previous posting the meaning of ‘monogenes’ as ‘unique’ or ‘only one of his/its kind.’ According to the Enhanced Strong’s Greek Lexicon the word ‘monogenes’ means single of its kind, only (used of only sons or daughters [viewed in relation to their parents]; used of Christ).
In Greek the word for ‘begat/brought forth’ is ‘gennao.’ Both ‘huios’ (son) and ‘gennao’ (begat/brought forth) have been used in the Bible literally as well as metaphorically (I hope you still can understand the difference between literal and metaphorical). Here are some examples:
a) ‘gennao’ (begat)—literal (Matthew 1:16; Luke 1:13), metaphorical (John 3:5; Galatians 4:24)
b) ‘huios’ (son)—literal (Luke 2:7; John 4:5), metaphorical (Acts 4:36; Mark 3:17)
In the same way the word ‘monogenes’ has been used in the Bible with reference to both literal son/daughter (Luke 7:12; Luke 8:42; Luke 9:3 and metaphorical son (John 1:18; John 3:16; John 3: 18
3. According to John 3:16 Jesus is the ‘monogenes huios’ (only one of His kind) of God. Although God has other sons and daughters or children metaphorically who are created, Jesus is the only one of His kind Son in the sense that He was not a created being rather brought forth from within Godhead. Jesus Christ is not just a Son of God, but the unique Son of God.
4. In Psalm 2: 7 David wrote that God said, “..You are my son, today I have begotten you”. This is a prophecy of the coming ‘Messiah.’ If you don’t understand it please ask us but don’t venture to comment as you wish.
5. The Greek phrase ‘monogenes huios’ is neither an interpolation not is it removed from the Bible.
You wrote:
“1.Even peoples of that time believed him to be prophet and even his disciples believed him as prophet and Christ. e.g.
John 6:14 “ When the people saw the sign which he had done, they said, “This is indeed the PROPHET who is to come into the world ”
Luke 24:19 discussion of his two disciples ..”And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a PROPHET mighty in deed and word before God and all the people”
My answer:
Who says He was not a PROPHET? Yes, Jesus was a PROPHET. But not just a PROPHET. He was more than a PROPHET.
You wrote:
“2.Just before crucifixion all his disciples fled. Why? If they knew Jesus was God they would not have fled this way.”
My answer:
Although the disciples knew Jesus was more than a PROPHET they had not realized that He is God until His resurrection.
You wrote:
“3.Book of Job gives one explicit statement about THE SON OF MAN (Jesus.. I think no doubt about this phrase for Jesus as it has been used more than 80 times for him in bible) can’t be God. (Douay-Rehims)
JOB 25:4 Can man be justified compared with God, or he that is born of a woman appear clean?
JOB 25:5 Behold even the moon doth not shine, and the stars are not pure in his sight.
JOB 25:6 How much less man that is rottenness (maggot) and THE SON OF MAN who is a worm?
See here. Nobody born of woman is clean (unlike his conception, every body knows that Jesus was in Mary’s womb and born normal birth). In God’s view, moon and son are nothing and man is just like maggot and Jesus is like worm. Imagine, what God is saying about ? another Godhead (Jesus).
My answer:
1. We don’t equate the phrase ‘the son of man’ to Jesus’ title ‘The Son of Man’ every time it appears in the Bible. One needs to look into the text and context to determine its intended meaning.
2. Job from 25:4-5 is talking about man in general. In verse 6 Job is asking,
“How much less man that is rottenness (maggot)
and the son of man who is a worm?”
In the above verse the words ‘man’ and ‘the son of man’ are one and the same that Job is referring to. As is the custom of the Hebrew poetic language (parallelism; if you want to know more about the Hebrew parallelism please visit http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/23_parallel.html) the same is repeated with emphasis in the second stanza. Because the phrase ‘son of man’ in the second stanza is referring to the word ‘man’ in the first stanza it is supplied with the definite article ‘the.’ Therefore, ‘the son of man’ in Job has nothing to do with ‘The Son of man’ the title that Jesus claimed.
You wrote:
“3. If Jesus is God, he is coequal and coeternal BUT you see from the bible we know
*Christ was MADE lord by God.
*Jesus APPOINTED by God.
*Jesus OBEYED God
*Jesus did ACCORDING TO GOD’S will not his will
*Jesus PRAYED to God
*Jesus called God , “MY GOD”
Still Jesus is coequal to God. HEIGHT O PREJUDICES!
Your book says directly
He was prophet (Luke 24:19) – no Christian believes
He was a man like us (Hebrew2:17) – no Christian believes
He is man and had miraculous birth like Adam (1 Cor.15:45) – no Christian believes
My answer:
1. You wrote, “Still Jesus is coequal to God. HEIGHT O PREJUDICES!”
I am sure you are still continuing in your ignorance or immaturity. No problem! I don’t want to respond to this the way you deserve. I’ll wait for your apologies in your next posting for this comment.
2. Again you forgot the fact that Jesus Christ is the ‘incarnate-God.’ Therefore, you are getting confused by mixing up His human and divine natures. Yes, He was man, prophet and Messiah. At the same time, He was God. If you don’t understand it here is an illustration to help you…
The Bible does say that Jesus is man. If the Bible says Jesus is fully man it doesn’t automatically mean that he is NOT God. For your sake let me give you a simple example here although I wonder if it makes any sense to you. If I show you a glass full of water and you call it a glass of water that’s correct. But that does not automatically exclude other possible invisible dissolved elements in the glass such as sugar or salt along with the water. Humanity and deity are not mutually exclusive natures in Jesus Christ.
You wrote:
“So it is not amazing Jesus told about them
Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do WORSHIP me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. See this verse below Matthew 13:13..Seeing they see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
My answer:
Yes, Jesus warned true worshipers of God not to follow those who made up their religion based on human traditions (in Arabic ‘hadiths’).
Yes, Jesus commented on the people who do not understand who the true God is and what His gift of salvation is. Therefore, He said:
“With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah that says:
‘You will indeed listen, but never understand,
and you will indeed look, but never perceive.
15 For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and their ears are hard of hearing,
and they have shut their eyes;
so that they might not look with their eyes,
and listen with their ears,
and understand with their heart and turn—
and I would heal them.’ (Matthew 13:14-15)
May the One True God (the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David and Jesus the incarnate-Logos) bring you into His light and salvation.
Adil.