On May 10, 2008, in Hyderabad, one of the largest ever Christian Muslim debate was held. Bro. Jerry was the Christian speaker and Bro. Imran the Muslim speaker. The topic of debate was- Divinity of Jesus and Messengerhood of Muhammad: Separating Falsehood from Truth. Following is the transcript of the presentation by Bro. Imran.
Respected Sheikh Arshad Madani, my dear brother Mansoor, the master of conduct for this evening debate, Mr. George, Mr. Sudheer and Mr. George, the guests of this evening debate from Sakshi: An Apologetics Network in India, all my dear elders in the audience and all my dear brothers and sisters, I welcome all of you with the Islamic greetings.The subject of this debate is Divinity of Jesus and Messenger hood of Muhammad (saaw). I was keenly observing Bro. Jerry for the past 50 minutes and I was constantly being reminded of the world’s popular cartoon show Tom and Jerry show. And I personally concluded after listening for the past 50 minutes that he must have taken his entire motivation to boldly speak in a loud voice and try to adventure things which can never happen or be proven, by getting motivation from Jerry, not this Jerry, but the mouse Jerry of Tom and Jerry. Because in Tom and Jerry cartoon show, the mouse there always wins over Tom, the rat. And in fact in one of the cartoon episodes Thomas is the name of the cat, the tom there. So you see two opposites in his name exist together. And he thinks it will happen everywhere. But sorry to say you Sir, two opposites can never exist together except that you have some mental problem. I cannot say this is a bright day night. How can there be bright day and night together. I cannot say that Jerry is a very tall short man. I cannot say he is black and white. Either he will be black or white. I cannot say that he is man and woman together. Either he will be man or woman. Anyway, not to keep the entire subject very stereotyped, I try to bring a little sense of humor. I personally apologize if he has taken it as an attack because more than the name of Jesus, he was taking my name throughout his speech. As far as I remember; might be I am wrong.Anyway, anyway, that’s very good. He will get blessings for it. Because Imran is the name of the grandfather of Isa. He is the Nana Jaan, the father of Mariam, mother of Isa. Coming to the subject, Divinity of Jesus and Messengerhood of Muhammad (saaw). Before I start discussing this subject, let me make the Muslim stand very clear, not my stand, the Muslim stand as a whole. Let me make the Muslim stand very clear to all of you. We Muslims, only on one dictate of Prophet Muhammad (saaw), one person Muhammad (saaw) made the 1.2 billion Muslims of today and the entire Muslims of the world. To make it an article of faith to not only to respect but to believe in Jesus (PBUH). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus Christ (PBUH). We Muslims, we believe that Jesus Christ is a mighty messenger of Allah. We Muslims, we believe that Jesus Christ (PBUH) is very close in the ranks of other messengers to Allah. We Muslims, we believe that Jesus Christ (PBUH) healed those who were born blind and lepers, but with Allah’s permission. We Muslims, we believe that Jesus (PBUH) gave life to the dead, but by Allah’s permission. No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe this, as far as respecting and believing in Jesus in flesh. That he quoted. It is a wrong spirit. It is not from God if they don’t believe in Jesus. Alhamdurallah, I have proven that Muslims believe in Jesus; Muhammad (saaw) is the true messenger of Allah.There is no other non-Christian who claimed and the messenger and made it an article of faith in the world to believe in Jesus (PBUH), except Muhammad (saaw). According to his own standards, Muhammad is a messenger of Allah. Coming to my subject of the debate Divinity of Jesus (PBUH), and Messenger hood of Muhammad (saaw), Separating falsehood from truth. As a Muslim, I am not a pseudo secular who would say 2+2=4, 2+2=5 and 2+2=7 because otherwise the Christians will feel hurt or other non-Muslims will feel hurt. By God, I am a proud Muslim and a proud Indian to believe that I am a Muslim who doesn’t believe Jesus to be the Almighty God. I only believe him to be the messenger of Allah, not a God. I don’t believe him to be one of the Trinity. I do not believe him to be equal to God and I don’t believe anyone else to be equal to Allah. And the way he was expressing himself, I was a little sympathetic also. I felt he has been possessed by some unholy spirit. His expressions are so serious. I was afraid that he would come and knock me down. “What? Would you believe or not?” Anyway, I am sure, that’s his; might be that is the malayali attitude towards that. But Hyderabadi’s are very guest loving people. We welcome you to our city of Hyderabad.And, and, mashallah, before he came for this debate, his team was very worried about his security. They went to the higher-ups in the police department, thinking that the ignorant Muslims might hit him. Walla sir, I promise you, I will take you to my home and then leave you to your place. Your security is equal to my security and more than me. You are our guest. Don’t worry about that. It is an academic even, Sir. Academically, you can present anything unless and until you don’t do anything which is against the constitution of the land. Nothing will happen to you, Insha’Allah.Now, you see, I have decided to discuss the subject of the debate Divinity of Jesus and Messenger hood of Muhammad (saaw) under 2 topics, under 2 headings, main headings:
- Divinity of Jesus
- Messenger hood of Muhammad (saaw) as it is behind me.
Under Divinity of Jesus, I shall be discussing the subject basically under 3 subheadings. The first subheading being, the Holy Bible, which throughout the talk, Jerry Thomas had as his platform to prove that Jesus is God. The Holy Bible is the entire Holy Bible, the Word of
God. My second part, i.e., the second subheading under divinity of Jesus is the History of Trinity and is Jesus God according to the Bible.My 3rd subheading is the status of Jesus (PBUH) in the house of Islam.To begin with, the first one is the entire bible the Word of Almighty God. Respected Sir, you are a great research scholar of Christianity as you claim. Till now, 8.40 p.m., 10 May 2008, till now, not a single Christian scholar of high eminence has ever claimed that this entire Bible is the Word of Almighty God. Not a single person. I challenge you to produce one, academically. Not one. And the learned people, I am not talking about Jerry. I don’t know how much learned he is. I am talking about learned people of Christianity. The learned people of Christianity, they say that this Bible basically has 3 categories of authors, and these three categories of authors are “supposed to be”, that statement, “supposed to be”. Why? Even the highest people cannot claim it to be true. So they say “supposed to be”. The 3 authors are:
- Almighty God, supposed to be
- The Holy prophets,
- The Historians
The statements of these 3 authors are mixed up so much, in other words, I would say, in inverted commas united so much, that it is impossible to disunite them. It is unidentifiable, which statement in the Bible belongs to God, which statement belongs to prophets and which belongs to historians, except that on the basis of context and references with analysis, it might be understood, might be, that this is a statement of God, might be that this is a statement of Prophet and might be this is a statement of historian. But no author has ever claimed or scholar has claimed that the entire Bible is the Word of God.Secondly, the word Bible, many Muslims and non-Muslims think it means the Book revealed to Jesus, Moses and David. Many Muslims, they think that the Torah, Zaboor and Injeel in the Quran is the Holy Bible. The Torah, Zaboor and Injeel are not the Holy Bible. I request my Muslim brothers and sisters not to go beyond the Christian scholars. The Christian scholars themselves do not say that this is the Torah, Zaboor and Injeel. They say “supposed to be”, meaning “this is what we think. We are not sure about it.”This Bible, the OT ad the NT, are the 2 two major portions. The OT said to be the books written before Jesus (PBUH). And the NT said to be the books written after Jesus (PBUH). I would repeat again.OT, the books written before Jesus NT, the books written after JesusThe book at the time of Jesus is not there in any Bible in the world. It’s after; it’s before. God came and the entire Christian world does not have what the God says by His own words. It is inspired. It is inspired. It is not revelation. He said,” what is the proof about Muhammad (saaw) getting the revelation?” I think I can give several proofs. The biggest proof is the Quran. Can you show me any hafiz of the Bible, I challenge you. Biggest proof, the Quran of being, and the Bible not being the Word of God. Quran has hufaz. Muhammad (saaw) was a Hafis. And Jerry, I will give you a lifetime challenge to memorize the entire Bible, whichever your choice, 73 books, 66 books, 87 books etc. There are so many Bibles. Whichever you want, according to your ease, you memorize it. Not in English, in the original language, which you will never get. But you must be wondering, my topic is Divinity of Jesus. Why am I quoting about Bible so much. Because there is a book which says there are about 101 contradictions in the Bible. How many? These are minimum 101. There are 101 contradictions in the Bible, this Bible that he has been so proudly quoting to prove Jesus is God, believe it. I will believe when you solve the 101 contradictions. Then according to a magazine that is published from London, England, and that magazine is “the Awake” magazine. The Awake magazine belongs to one of the staunchest Christian cult: Jehovah Witness. (Sakshi comment: Please note that Bro. Imran himself knows that Jehovah witness is one of the staunchest Christian CULT. Still he would quote from them. Is he an honest scholar then?)For these Jehovah Witness, they are masters in missionary work. Jerry is a small child compared to them. They are masters. So these Jehovah Witness, the magazine that they have printed, The Awake magazine, they gave a shocking news. Shocking news not for non-Christians, but for the Christians. And it was startling for the Christians. What was that news? It was printed in Sept 1957-58. The magazine prints, what does it print? 50000 errors in the Bible! No Muslim publication! No Hindu publication! Pure strong Christian publication saying 50000 errors in the Bible. Jerry will not believe in it. He will say, “No, no, no, you see, so many people tried to prove it”. It is not true. So I would like to give Jerry-that he wanted to gift me. But I don’t want to gift you. Purchase it or read it and give it back to me. The preface of the Revised Standard Version says the King James Version has serious defects. What is King James Version? It is also the Holy Bible, the Word of God. What is Revised Standard Version? It is also the Word of God. So this word of God was corrected by 32 eminent scholars of Christianity backed by 50 denominations. And Jerry and the Sakshi team was not one of them. They say The King James Version has serious defects; the Word of God has serious defects. Who is co
rrecting it? The Man. But again, the question remains. Why I am quoting on the Bible so much? The reason for that is very simple. With 101 mistakes and about 50000 errors in the Bible, yet there is not a single unequivocal statement of Jesus where Jesus said “I am God, worship me.” Not 1 statement, with so many mistakes. That mistake is still not there in it. There is not one verse where Jesus ever said “I am God or Worship me”. Now the problem. Jerry: “I know Mr. Imran will quote this. I know Mr. Imran will quote this.” So childish. Whatever I am going to quote, I know I will be quoting from the Bible. What if I say, I know what you will be quoting. I know the popular ayats you people will quote. If I guess it, it is nothing great. The interpretation becomes very important. So he said, he quoted my “Calling to Islam” book. This is the book that I had written and published. So he quoted this book. In this book, he said, “I quoted one verse, I quoted another verse. You see, Br Imran doesn’t quote after that. If I quote after that, I find that whatever I am quoting is contradicting with what is coming afterwards. You understand? If I quote a verse of Jesus where Jesus says” I am not God” the verse that he quotes says “I am God”. So first Christianity should first solve that problem “which one we should quote?” Yet, in the entire Bible, again a lifetime challenge for him, entire Bible, I will arrange an entire session only for that answer. Show me one verse in the entire Bible where Jesus said “I am God” or where he said worship Me.” Not a single verse. Coming to the history of trinity. He said triune God. What is triune God? Meaning God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost. These three are in one. They are not 3, but one. And he gave a beautiful example. What was the example? He said, if I say ”my mother and father are one or some example he gave to prove two personalities are one, I didn’t give an ear to it because it is not an important example. Commonly quoted examples. Well I can give hundered more than he can give me because the nature is the same in every apologetic. Father and Mother are one. How may personalities when I say father and mother? One person or 2 persons? Two. Sure? I said all Indians are one. What does it mean? Personality wise we are different or personality wise we are one? Geographically, we are all Indians, we are one. We follow the same law of land. We are proud to be Indians. Geographically! Ideologically, we are one. Personality wise, different. So he said, see every point, I cant do it. We have the chief guest from the Sakshi, who is a lawyer. I am not a lawyer. So I can’t pick every point to have a discussion like a lawyer in a court room. But whatever were his important confusions and doubts, to put it to the right place, I would like to give an example. I am sure Jerry will understand it very easily. See, in my schooldays, when I was in school, we were taught the principle of BODMAS. What is the principle of BODMAS? If you want to solve any problem in mathematics, you should apply BODMAS principle. What is BODMAS?Brackets Off, Division, Multiplication, Addition and Subtraction. For example, if I give you an equation: 1+1+1= how much. To solve it, you have to apply BODMAS. What is BODMAS? Brackets Off, Division, Multiplication, Addition and Subtraction. If this rule you apply, the answer will come right. If I ask 1+1+1=how much? 1+1+1=how much? Tell me. Everybody knows it. How much? But if I say 1+1+1=1. Am I applying BODMAS or not? NO. I gave a wrong answer. So he wants the entire world to believe that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, 1+1+1 is not three, but it is one. Are these the same? This is what he wants to prove. The Father, The Son, The Holy Ghost, these three are not three, they are only one. Even if every human being becomes an Einstein of their time, they cannot solve this problem. Nobody can solve this. 1+1+1 is not 3, it is 1. So to make it convenient for Br. Jerry, I have decided to give him a principle of religious BODMAS and if he applies the principle of religious BODMAS, I assure all of you and him, if he applies the principle of religious BODMAS, he will immediately come from there, here and say, “Imran bhai, all my faith in Christianity has fallen onto utter ruin. All my questions in Islam, they are solved by myself. Because for the first time in my life, I applied the principle of religious BODMAS. But all of you would love to what is religious BODMAS. Religious BODMAS means religious blindness off, dogmas minus, apply scripture. B: BlindnessO: OffD: DogmasM: MinusA: ApplyS: Scripture I repeat: B: BlindnessO: OffD: DogmasM: MinusA: ApplyS: Scripture If he starts applying scriptures, I challenge him he cannot prove the divinity of Jesus from the scripture. If he tries to prove it, he will have to for his lifetime try to solve
the contradictions in the Bible. And he said, I should not give my interpretations. He keeps quoting IREF website, calling to Islam, IREF website…… Walla, what Imran says, what IREF website says or what anybody else says is zero in Islam. But if I say from the Quran and Hadith, that is most valuable. Similarly, Similarly, Similarly, what Tom, Dick and Jerry says is zero. I want what Jesus himself said about this subject. Lifetime challenge! Show me in the words of Jesus. Not 2 hours, not 3 hours. Lifetime challenge! Show me the words of Jesus where He said: “I am God.” Or where he said worship me” and he quotes Matthew 19:16, 17 what he said from my book. (Sakshi Comment: He quotes the first reference from any scripture almost after 24 minutes!!!) I quoted from the Bible that according to the Bible, Jesus said “Why thou callest Me good? There is none good, but one. That is God.” So he wants me to understand and believe that in other verses, further, he says “I have glorified you God. So now you should glorify me.” I am equal to God. And he quoted John 17:3, 4 and he said verses 5, Jesus says, “O God, Glorify Me like You.” Who should glorify Jesus? Man or God? Jesus is praying to God and saying “God, I glorified You. You also glorify Me.” Is it sounding sense that God will say “O mankind, I am the God, and this Jesus is My God?” How? There is an ayat in the Quran, Surah 4:80 where Allah said, “Whosoever obeys Allah, he obeys Muhammad (saaw). Does that mean Muhammad (saaw) is Allah? Allah said in Glorious Quran Surah 90: “O Prophet! We have raised you zikr high in esteem and in every asdf we say Allahuakbar. Does that mean Allah and Muhammad (saaw)are equal? It doesn’t mean that. And the history of trinity is something very important for all of us to know. What is trinity? As I said, The Holy Father, the Holy Son and the Holy Ghost, these three are not three, but they are one. The word “Trinity” or its root word, which is the Doctrine of trinity, doesn’t occur in the Bible for one single time. From where did they get it? A billion dollar question! From where did the Christians get TRINITY? St. Paul in the NT. If you read NT, you will find that St.Paul is the author of more than 70% of the NT. More than 70%, St.Paul is the author for NT. And St.Paul, I think is the Einstein and Edison of modern day Christianity. He invented many things in Christianity. But he also failed to invent Trinity. According to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, there is no concept of Trinity. From where did they get it? And the Christians present the concept of Trinity to the world as if it is an original concept introduced to the world by Christianity. Trinity concept already existed in several other religions and cultures before it got introduced into modern day Christianity. If you read the Babylonian civilization, 2000 years before Jesus (PBUH) they worshipped a triplet God, meaning a God which is triune, like they say. The Babylonians also said there are three gods, but these three are not three, they are one. Hinduism that we have in our country, much earlier than Jesus Christ (PBUH), Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, you find those three heads, the triplet Gods, were already there before Jesus. Egypt, they had it. Greeks, if you read the Bible and the Greek mythology, you will find such a great similarity. Draper is a great historian. Draper, he wrote a book by the name,” Conflict between Religion and Science”. And in this book he says that Apollo was a mythological Holy Ghost, according to the Greek Pantheon.(Sakshi comment: Since the Islamic scholar Bro. Imran (not us) accepts the authority of Draper on religion; we encourage Muslims to read what Draper has to say on Muhammad sahab in the same book History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science: – “By the monk Bahira, in the convent at Bozrah, Mohammed was taught the tenets of the Nestorians” “It is well known among physicians that prolonged fasting and mental anxiety inevitably give rise to hallucination” “Mohammedanism, as left by its founder, was an anthropomorphic religion. Its God was only a gigantic man, its heaven a mansion of carnal pleasures.” http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/draper03.htm Honest Muslims should ask Bro. Imran why he is quoting such sources. And this Apollo, he came into the dream of a person called Arius and he said, “Arius, I have conceived your fiancée with my child.” Meaning your fiancée she is going to become the mother of my child. Who is saying this? The Holy Ghost. According to Greek mythology, who is it? Apollo! Apollo says, according to Greek mythology that Arius in his dream, not in reality, in the dream, said that, “Arius, you see, I have conceived your fiancée. So don’t go near her. And later the child that was born, he was said to be the son of the Holy Ghost and the son of god. The Egyptian disciples of Plato, they used to think that Plato is the son of god. It was already there. If you read Gospel of Matthew chapter 1 verse 20, you ill find Holy Ghost comes in the dream of Joseph, the carpenter, who was a spouse to Mary and says similar things. He says, “Joseph, I have co
nceived Mary by my Child. So don’t mistrust her. She is a very good woman. She is going to give birth to My baby now.” From where did they get it? Copied it from there! Then, still you see, trinity is not coming there. From where did it come? So if you read the history, if you visit Wikipedia, he was quoting my website, I will quote you very strong authentic historical websites, Wikipedia, encyclopedia Britannica, if you visit these websites, you will find these websites, they say that Trinity was introduced at the time of Constantine, a Roman king. Who is Constantine? A king. What happened in his time? He wanted to have an influence on his people. So in the year 321, you will find that the Christians in Rome were in a hot discussion, whether Jesus is God, equal to God or not God. So in 321, you will find that the discussion started in the form of a confrontation now. Quarrelling started. Constantine was worried now in his kingdom, what was going wrong? So he decided to call all learned Christian scholars and seat them. And he made them sit together and he said to them,”C’mon, now have the discussion in front of me.” And then, in that discussion, there was a Christian scholar from Alexandria of Egypt. He had a quarrel with his presbyter, by the name Arius. And in this quarrel, Constantine supported Alexander of Alexandria, who proposed the theory of Trinity for the first time and Constantine ordered that from today, Trinity should become an official concept of all Christians, which is not there in the Bible at all. Afraid of the king, the Christians of that time started to follow. Then in 381, the follower of Constantine, Theosidus, he made it compulsory as an official religion to believe in Trinity. And this belief in Trinity, if you read the entire Bible, the closest verse to Trinity in the Bible, you will find in the first epistle of John chapter 5verse 7, which says : And in the heaven records 3 names : The Holy Father, The Holy Son and The Holy Ghost. And these three are one. Closest verse to Trinity in King James Version. But, when it was revised, even this closest verse in the Bible has been thrown out. They said,”Get out, you are not the Word of God.” The remotest verse to Trinity is thrown out of the Bible. It is no more there. So, therefore, I said, dogma. What is dogma? To believe without any reasoning. If I ask him, “Sir, who believed in Trinity?” You see, if you read the Bible, he will quote one verse, other verse.(Sakshi comment: Bro. Imran realizes that Jerry already provided the evidence of Trinity from the Holy Bible in his presentation and now he tries damage control)And see, the debate he has given a new shape to it. He quoted a few debates earlier. He said I have had debates with one or two Muslim brothers earlier and he won it. I doubt for that. Might be. My Muslim brother’s presentation was not in a suffering manner. He must have presented very politely and it appeared to you that you won the debate. Alhamdulillah! The weakest of the Muslims will never loose. We have the strength of the truth with us. The weakest will never loose. I never claim. I never claimed that I won many debates with anybody. And in fact, he said how can I be an international scholar. I am already an international scholar, Sir. If you don’t want to believe, you don’t believe. Now about Jesus being God from the Bible, I want to read it daily. Every verse, one by one, I am not finding it still. Where did Jesus say, “I am God. Worship me.”?One statement. Simple question to him. Where did Jesus say, “I am God. Worship me.”?One statement. So he quoted, “You see, Jesus said that “I AM”. Verily, Verily, I say unto you…..” He quoted Gospel of John chapter 8 verse 58. He said, “Verily, Verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am.” See, how can Jesus be there before Abraham, unless He is God? So Jesus is God. Is that a proof for God? Before Abraham was with God, even I was in His knowledge; even you were there. In His knowledge everybody was there. And before Abraham, even Satan was there. Does that mean that is God? Is that a proof to prove that Jesus is divine? It is a laughing stock. (Sakshi comment: It is a laughing stock that though Jerry clearly cautioned Bro. Imran that he should not bring this false interpretation, and gave evidences from the scripture, Bro. Imran still brings it because he has nothing else to say to fill 50 minutes. See Jerry’s presentation)Only because he said “Before Abraham was, I am “. You see, who can be before Abraham? God! Then he quoted another verse. And he quoted it wrong. Although he had the paper with him in front of him; he quoted a wrong verse form the Bible, even keeping a paper. He quoted Gospel of Matthew chapter 5 verse 19. It is being video recorded. You can cross check.(Sakshi comment: We cross checked it. Bro. Jerry did not quote any of these verses wrong. Though we accept that slip of tongues can happen with anyone). Matthew chapter 5 verse 19: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees and the Scribes…. That is the verse there. You quoted some other verse there. And you also quoted Gospel of John chapter 5 verse 19. It is not John chapter 5 verse 19, Sir. It is John chapter 5 verse 30. It is video recorded. No, no, you quoted later. First you made a mistake and then corrected it immediately. Anyway, it is video recorded. 16 cameras, we have for video recording. You have only four. He quoted Gospel of John chapter 5 verse 30 where he wanted to prove that by nature Jesus is equal to God. Now, I don’t know what is the unnatural way of God not being equal to God. I don’t know if Jesus had two natures: one is natural and other is unnatural. He said supernatural. Supernatural means over the God. Check any dictionary Sir. English is very good with Keralites. What does supernatural mean? Which is not according to nature? Who is nature? God is nature. (Sakshi comment: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural) Supernatural means over the God. Jesus is supernatural? In what way should I believe in supernatural? Anyway, I do not want to quote many more verses which I have brought along with me.
Just to put a few of them. The God came on earth. The Christians today welcomed Him, welcomed God: You are on earth all these days. And when the God came here, 40 days the shaitan is tempting Him. I don’t say that. And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed for a season, for some time, he went away from Jesus. He tempted Jesus! The devil! God is being tempted by the devil? And he was there in the wilderness 40 days, tempted by the shaitan. Who was there? Jesus. 40 days, shaitan is tempting Him. But He was in all points tempted like we are. You understand? If there is a sinner who looks at a naked woman and he coitus: Ha! Naked woman! Tempted!!! So, the Bible is saying Jesus was tempted like us. What does it say? “But was in all ways tempted like as we are, yet without sin”! He is not a sinner yet. He is sinless. Even if He is tempted like you and me, Jesus is sinless. Why? Because this is a blind belief! Unless they don’t apply religious BODMAS (Blindness Off, Dogmas Minus,), you have any reason? We don’t have any reason but we believe it. And he will start. “See, Jesus said in Matthew chapter 7 verse 1 and 2, “Don’t judge others, so that you may not be judged. As you will judge others, so will you be judged?” How? He said he doesn’t want explanations from me. See, all this time I have been giving evidences with my explanations. 90% of his explanations are one verse he quotes and explanations come from him. Whose explanations? Is it in the Quran? Is it in the Hadith? Is it in the Bible? It is his explanations. Not from the Bible.Sakshi comment: Because Bro. Imran claimed this, out of curiosity, Sakshi counted the number of verses cited by Bro. Jerry and Bro. Imran in their respective presentations. If the same speaker quotes one verse twice, we counted it as one. Here is the result:
|Speaker||The Holy Bible||Quran||Hadiths||Total|
You decide who is giving his own explanations. How can he believe Jesus to be God, when the entire Bible is without a statement that He is God? And He is tempted by shaitan. Is this the tendency or a nature of God? He said, by nature, Jesus is like God. Does God tempted by shaitan? Can anybody believe it? Can God be ever tempted by Shaitan? And he wants us to believe that Jesus by nature is like God, and He was tempted by shaitan.And James chapter 1 verse 13 says God can never be tempted by shaitan. Neither will God tempt any human being. Jesus is not God. Show me one verse, one verse from the entire Bible where any of the disciples of Jesus, they worshipped Jesus in His lifetime saying “You are our God”. One verse. See, who will be the closest? Tomorrow somebody goes out of the program and there are some people who meet you. They asked you about the program and then they go to somebody to tell about this program. Are you a better evidence or they the better evidence? But natural, the persons who are here. The disciples of Jesus, not for one single time in His entire lifetime, worshipped Jesus as God. (Sakshi comment: Did he hear the beginning of Jerry’s presentation, John 20:28???)And they want the entire world to believe that Jesus was God and we should worship Him. Who said this? Did God say that? No! Did Jesus say that in the Bible? No. From where did you get it? So they have contradictory verses which they interconnect with each other with their own explanations.How much time more? 11 minutes moreAbout the messenger hood of Mohammad (saw). What should I speak? He spoke 100 things. But he didn’t disprove that Muhammad (saaw) is not the messenger of God. If Jesus can be tempted by shaitan, what will happen if Muhammad (saaw) has some problem of sorcery?(Sakshi comment: Muslims must think about Bro. Imran’s admission of Muhammad being under magic. Since Muhammad was under the magic spell, he cannot be even a true believer according to the Holy Bible or even the Quran. Decision is yours.)Is it logical? Judge not others that you may not be judged. The problem with him is he is a habituated translation reader. Why? Where is the original of the Bible? He never reads the Bible in its original. He reads the translation, translation, translation, translation. Jerry, can you please help me? Excuse me, Jerry. Can you please help me? What was the language of Jesus? You will tell! Okay, I will tell also the question afterwards. And I again give you a lifetime challenge to tell the truth. You know, no Christian can prove what was the language of Jesus. And they believe in a character to be God whose language they don’t know. Insha’Allah. If he proves, I will give an anti proof to it. Coming to Mohammad. I would discuss this subject under 3 headings. Again, messenger hood of Mohammad. What are those 3 headings?
- What eminent non-Muslims say about Mohammad? I said eminent non-Muslims. I dint say any Tom, Dick and Jerry. Eminent non-Muslims. And Jerry is not an eminent non-Muslim. What eminent non-Muslims say about Mohammad?
- Muhammad (saaw)in the house of Islam
- Muhammad (saaw) in the Bible.
First one. Lamartine was a historian from France. In the year 1854, he wrote about history: Histoire de la Turquie. And in that book, page 273 and, 274, he says he lays three standards to judge the greatest of all human beings. He says greatness of purpose, smallness of means and astounding results are the three criteria to judge any human genius. See, purpose should be great. You know, purpose wise, also Jesus Christ is smaller than Mohammad. If you read Gospel of Matthew Chapter 15 verse 26, Chapter 10, verse 5 and 6, and Matthew chapter 15, Jesus in verse 26 says, “I am not being sent, but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel”.Meaning I am not for mankind. I am only for the non-gentiles. And what is a gentile and a non-gentile? Gentile is a non-Jew. One is a Jew. Jerry, according to Jesus is a gentile. And Jesus, if you read Matthew chapter15, a non-Jew, she comes to Jesus and asks for some help. So He says” it is not neat for me to cast bread to the dogs”, meaning if Jesus would have been today here, he would have called Jerry as a dog. I don’t say that. Jesus said that to a non-Jew. He said, it is not neat. It is not good for me that I should give our benefits to the dogs. So Jesus’ mission was only for Bani-Israel. Mission of Mohammad. Surah 21, ayat 107 says: “we sent you not, for the entire universe as a messenger. Jesus is sent only for Bani Israel. And Lamartine says the greatness of purpose. What is the greatness of
purpose? Muhammad (saaw) said” I have come to establish Tawheed on the entire face of earth”. And smallness of means: What were the means with Muhammad (saaw)? He was a poor person. After marrying Khadija, when he declared that “I am the messenger”, he became more poor. And this Mohammed has very smallness of means. Thirteen years he thrived in Mecca, had to migrate away. Smallness of means! Astounding results: What are the results? Jesus, before He was put on the cross according to the Bible, till He lived, He had 12 minus 1; one of them cheated. How many with Jesus? God incarnate on earth. What is the result? Only eleven! Muhammad (saaw), How many with him? More than one lakh forty thousand. Astounding results! What is the comparison between 11 and 1lakh 40 thousand? And Insha’Allah, in my rebuttal, I will give more answers to other questions. See, if I give all of them now, Jerry will be bored in the rebuttal. Smallness of means and astounding results and greatness of purpose are 3 criteria to judge a human genius. Then who can dare compare any man in modern history with Mohammad? Who said that? Eminent non-Muslim Lamartine said that. Encyclopedia Britannica, in the 11th edition, it says Muhammad (saaw) was supreme most successful of all the religious people. Not me. Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition. Bernard Shaw, a Christian, he says in the Genuine Islam, Vol 1, I have Studied him. Studied who? Studied Muhammad (saaw). A wonderful man, far from being antichrist. Some people call him antichrist! Far from being antichrist, I shall say he is the savior of humanity. (Sakshi comment: Bernard Shaw-a Christian or an atheist??? Is Bro. Imran ignorant or is he intentionally deceiving people). Michael H. Hart, an American Christian, philosopher and mathematician, he writes a book. The hundred: A ranking of the most influential person in the history. And in this book, being a Christian, he puts Jesus as no. 3 and the first number is Muhammad (saaw). (Sakshi comment: Michael H Hart is a self-described atheist. Is Bro. Imran ignorant or is he intentionally deceiving people?)And on page 33, published from New York Publications, 1973, he says, my choice of Mohammed in the list to lead the most ranking people, influential people of the world, may surprise many, and may be questioned by others. But there is no man in history who is more secular on religion and secular level than Muhammad (saw). Coming to Bible, he quoted, Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7. He quoted and said about “Comforter of Truth”. Jesus said that “it is better for you that I go away, but if I don’t go away, the Comforter of Truth will not come unto you. But if I depart, I will send Him to you.”So he said that Comforter of Truth cannot be Mohammad. I ask you why. What is the problem if it is Mohammad? So he said The God of Muhammad (saaw) and Yehovah… What is Yehovah? Yehovah is the God. Who is Yehovah? According to Christians, He is God. Did the Bible say that Yehovah is God? Did Bible say that He is God? No. See, How many times he quoted Yehovah, Yehovah, Yehovah, Yehovah. Who is this Yehovah, Yehovah, Yehovah, Yehovah? In the original, there is nothing as Yehovah. What is it? So they say it is tetragranation. You see, high vocabulary, so that common people don’t understand. Tetragranation! What is tetragranation? So they say tetragranation means a four alphabet word like YHWH. How will you pronounce this? Can anybody pronounce this? YHWH? It can’t be pronounced. It is a unique shocking word, without a vowel. YHWH. Who is the God? YHWH. Last minute? No problem. So he said, Yehovah, the God. This Yehovah, the name that he took is a corruption of the name. He doesn’t even know the true name of the Almighty God. Encyclopedia Britannica says much before Mohammad, the Arab Jews and Christians comfortably called God Almighty as Allah and not Yehovah. Comforter of truth that he said cannot be Mohammad. See, if I would have quoted all this, he would have given all wrong explanations and wasted our time. (Sakshi comment: It is quite funny that the Islamic preacher wants to say his arguments after Jerry’s rebuttal knowing fully that Bro. Jerry would not have time to correct him. Is Bro. Imran honest?)So, those explanations, Insha’Allah, I will give in my rebuttal, what I have to give, Insha’Allah. But you, before I end, I have brought 10 questions for Jerry with a lifetime challenge. He can’t answer one of them. If he answers one, he will contradict the remaining. It is a challenge to him. And if he doesn’t answer, Insha’Allah, I will answer him in rebuttal. I would like to end my talk with the ayat from Surah 3 ayat 51 where Allah says: Isa said,” Allah is My God and your God. Worship him.