Interview with Bro. Jerry Thomas

 Interview

Is it scriptural to debate? How should one prepare to debate? What is the Biblical view about Islam and Muslims? And more questions from Raymond and Richard to Bro. Jerry Thomas.



 

 Question: Who started the discussion on May 10th debate?

 

Answer: The debate came as a challenge from Muslim brothers. IREF says these Muslim brothers are not from IREF. Nevertheless, it came from Muslims.

 

Question: Should a Christian debate? Where is the scriptural basis to debate since you are taking debates?

 

Answer: As Rev. Sudhakar Mondithoka points out from the scriptures about public debate:

Acts 9: 29 And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Hellenists but they attempted to kill him.

Acts 18:28 “For he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is Christ.”

 

Further, it seems to me that it was the manner of Apostle Paul to present the Gospel by reasoning.

Acts 9:22 But Saul increased all the more in strength and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that Jesus is the Christ.

Acts 17: 2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures.

Acts 18:4 and he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Acts 18:19 and he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

Acts 19:8-10 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God. But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. And this continued for two years, so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

 

There are numerous other passages. Hope these suffice now.

 

Question: Your opponent personally insulted you rather than providing arguments. What is your take on it?

 

Answer: Personally I have no opponents. Whoever is an opponent of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is my opponent too.

 

Difference in the Spiritual Blessing Between a Christian and a Muslim

 

Firstly as Christians we inherited the blessing of Abraham through Jesus Christ who in His incarnation was the descendant of Isaac.According to Muslims, they are inheritors of Ishmael’s legacy and, Muhammad sahab, according to them, was a descendant of Ishmael.

 

According to the Holy Bible, Genesis 21:9 Ishmael who was of the bondage mocked at Isaac who was free.

 

The Holy Bible is very clear: In Galatians 4:28-29, inspired author Apostle Paul speaks about Ishmael and Isaac and writes:Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.  But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.” 

 

Difference in the Pattern that Christians and Muslims Follow

 

Secondly:I am a servant of LORD Jesus Christ. My Master silenced His critics through reasoning.

 

Matthew 22:46And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.”

 

Dawwah preachers are followers of Muhammad sahab. In Ibn Hisham’s The Life of Muhammad, Volume 2, Page Number 86-98, we read that a Christian delegation from Yemen came and debated with Muhammad sahab himself. If we read their questions as reported by one of the greatest Muslim ever lived- Ibn Hisham, Muhammad sahab was unable to answer them. When silenced by Christians, Muhammad sahab suddenly got a revelation from his Allah – Surah 3:1-80. We can at least make two conclusions from Muhammad sahab’s response:

 

(a)  Denial: Until then Muhammad sahab   was claiming that Quran is clear and detailed (Surah 5:15 and 6:114) and easy to understand (Surah 54:22). But when silenced by Christians, Muhammad sahab  suddenly said that only part of the Quran is clear and understandable and part of it only Allah knows the meaning (Surah 3:7). That is what a Muslim would also do when silenced by arguments.

 

(b) Curses:  In Surah 3:61 Muhammad sahab asks Christians to call their families and he would call his family and they would curse each other. Ibn Hisham says Christians refused to curse though Ibn Hisham as a Muslim falsely assumes that they discussed among themselves that to a curse a ‘prophet’ will bring curse. How does Ibn Hisham know what they discussed? But the fact is- Muhammad sahab wanted to curse, Christians refused to curse.

 

The point is this- Jesus silenced His critics through reasoning. Muhammad sahab tried to silence his opponents through denials and curses.

 

Question: How should one get prepared for a debate? How did you prepare for this debate?

 

Answer: The Holy Bible is very clear on what we should do and that is what we did.

 

Spiritual Warfare

 

First- 2 Corinthians 10:5 clearly says that “casting down arguments” that sets itself against the knowledge of Christ is not just an intellectual exercise but a spiritual warfare. There were many brothers and sisters who were partakers in “defense and confirmation of the Gospel” (Philippians 1: 7) through their prayer support. They waged a good fight.

 

Just to cite an example- Evangelist Sam Philip worked hard to raise worldwide prayer support.There were numerous others who were partakers in this defense by helping publicity in Hyderabad and outside Hyderabad. Though I would like to name them, they are many to be named. But I am very grateful for them. Rakshna TV channel also came forward to help. I must also mention Evangelist Israel who worked for publicity and volunteers.

 

Be Prophetically Correct

 

Second, 1 Peter 3: 14 says “do not be afraid of their threats nor be troubled”. We need to be bold and prophetically correct and not politically correct. So we were least bothered to please men but only God.

 

Be Prepared 

 

Third, 1 Peter 3:15 say “be prepared”. We had a good preparation. There were many brothers and sisters who helped in the constant review of the preparation. A few I must leave unnamed for security reasons. Others were- Rev. Sudhakar Mondithoka, George, Sherry, Sreedhar, Peter, Ebenezer, Kamal, Paul, Bibu, Prashant, Ravinder, and the list goes on. The list is really big. I should name my wife –Liny who provided constant support.

 

Then of course, I must thank Brother Sam Shamoun who personally reviewed the transcript and suggested a few valuable changes. Sam’s research proved immensely helpful.So we obeyed the commandment of praying and being prepared.

 

Be Holy

 

Fourth, 1 Peter 3:15 say “Sanctify the Lord God in your hearts” in the context of giving reasons. Subjecting ourselves under the grace of Jesus to lead a Holy life worthy of our calling is essential. No matter whatever you do, if we do not sanctify the Lord God, then we will not have victory. Battle is the LORD’s. If you read Joshua 1:7-8 the instructions given to Joshua for the victory were similar though the nature of battle was different.

 

If we trust and obey the words of God, we can defeat and silence any

enemy of the Gospel. Remember historically Christians have silenced Muhammad sahab himself in a public debate.

 

Question: In my post debate interaction many Christians expressed that you debated a weak person who could not defend nor prove Muhammad to be a prophet. So, what is your opinion about Imran's presentation, rebuttal and the way he answered questions?

 

Answer: I agree that sometimes weak spokespersons can present a strong case weak but that was not what happened on May 10. In Bro. Imran’s own words, whether you and I accept or not, he is an international Islamic scholar. So the case was this- Christian faith is really strong and Islam is utterly weak. It was not Bro. Imran who was weak; it is the Islamic faith which is weak. If you try to defend the indefensible, you will appear weak.

 

The fact is this- though the subject of second person in the Triune God becoming man is very complex the case is really strong and irrefutable. All the earlier true prophets testified about God becoming man. LORD Jesus himself taught this and gave evidence for it and inspired Apostles clearly taught it. My presentation is only a tip of the huge amount of evidence that we have for the divinity of Jesus. If you read/hear the presentation, the case for the divinity of Jesus was constructed only from the answers to the popular questions which Muslims usually ask. Those answers itself are strong.

 

While during the discussion of this debate agreement, we asked IREF for a one hour 15 minutes presentation initially. When they did not agree for it, we asked for one hour. IREF still did not agree but insisted on 45 minutes. Finally as a compromise we agreed for 50 minutes.

Now coming to the messengerhood of Muhammad sahab. Muslims have no case to present for the messengerhood of Muhammad sahab. Bro. Imran hardly spoke for seven minutes on Muhammad sahab and what did he speak? Nothing. But the case against the messengerhood of Muhammad sahab is really strong and vast. What I presented was a grain compared to the evidence that we have against the messengerhood of Muhammad sahab  . I am not exaggerating a bit.

 

With the full confidence I can say this- even the best of Islamic scholars can never debate and win on two topics- the divinity of Allah of the Quran and messengerhood of Muhammad sahab.

 

Question: What do you think about the news report that came in Eenadu?

 

Answer: I read the translation only two days back after one brother put his comments in Sakshi. According to the report, topic for May 10 debate was – Quran or the Bible. That was real news to me. In the agreement that we signed with IREF, in all the publicity materials, and even on the stage the topic was clearly written-Divinity of Jesus and Messengerhood of Muhammad. Of course, it is another matter that Bro. Imran spoke very less on the topic.

 

Then I read about a so-called conversion. Here, I must share the conversation that I had with Bro. Imran immediately after the debate. Bro. Imran came and hugged me soon after the debate. Then I asked Bro. Imran- Shall we leave? I was thinking Bro. Imran would also leave immediately. He looked at the crowd as he was searching for someone and told to me “Wait for some more time. We will leave after sometime.” But then the Christian brothers asked me to leave and I left. I do not want to make any definite conclusions. But you think about it- why did Bro. Imran wanted me to stay back for more time even after the completion of the program? Whom was Bro. Imran searching in the public?

 

To me it appears that Bro. Imran had the perfect foreknowledge of the conversion.

 

Question: What do you think about Islam?

 

Answer: I do not want to say anything of my own. Who am I to say anything about Islam? I am just another human being. But I will say what the Holy Bible has to say about Islam.  When I read the Holy Bible I see crystal clear warnings to us. Let me read the Holy Bible rather than giving my own conclusions:

 

Biblical Warning (Not Promise)

 

2 Corinthians 11:3-4: “But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.”

 

How did serpent deceive Eve? Serpent asked the question- Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"And when Eve replied, serpent said: "You will not surely die,".The relation between human beings and God were broken.

 

When God became man and died for our sins that we should have the relationship with God again, what are the two questions that the same serpent can ask?“Did Jesus really say that He is God?” and when we try to reply next comment can be – Jesus did not certainly die. Jesus who is not God and did not die on the cross is a different Jesus.

 

Further, how would Satan come preaching this Jesus? Again in the form of a serpent? No. The same chapter explains it.

 

The Form that Satan Would Take this Time

 

2 Corinthians 11:14”And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.”

 

Apostle Paul would have been surprised many Christians putting up with this Jesus. Let us read one more passage. We will see what the inspired author Apostle Paul’s opinion is about Christians who put up with this another gospel and the reasons why they do so.

 

The Biblical Judgement on Such who Mislead and Whom Should Christians Please

 

Galatians 1: 6-10: I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!  Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

 

If we are trying to win the approval of men, we will put up with it. If not, we will dispute, publicly refute and reason against it. Remember I am not the one who used ‘dispute’ publicly refute and reason. It is the Holy Bible which has used it.There are many other verses to quote.

 

Islam and Article of Faith

 

I want to quote one more verse from the Holy Bible which should help you understand the nature of Islam.


1 John 2: 22: Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

 

Islam is one religion on the face of earth which makes it an article of faith to deny the Father and the Son. Now, you make your own conclusions. I have presented the evidences. What should be your response to this?

Are you going to continue the New Testament pattern of preaching- of disputing, publicly refuting, and reasoning?

Now that I have given a long answer to your question about Islam, I hope you will ask me about Muslims too.

 

Question: Ha! Ok. What is your opinion about Muslims?

 

Answer: Good. I was waiting for this question. Muslims are human beings who are created in the image of our God. Jesus Christ loves them and died for them too. We have the immense responsibility to share the love of Jesus Christ with them.

 

We Must Extend the Love of Christ

 

Romans 5: 6-11 says: “For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

 

Muslims have no Knoweldge of God 

 

We have to love Muslims with the same love and bring them to the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Muslims are currently in without any knowledge of the God. They do not even know the name of thier god. Allah is not a proper noun. It is a generic noun like God. Arabic Bible translates Yehovah Elohim (God) as Allah Yehovah. Arabic Gita translates it as Allah Krishna. What is the name of the Allah of the Quran? Allah of Muhammad sahab, for some reason, does not tell that.

 

What Jesus Christ told to the Samaritan woman is applicable to Muslims:

 

John 4: 22-24:You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

 

I already mentioned about Muhammad sahab  saying that some part of the Quran is unclear and cannot be understood. Here is the testimony of one of the first converts from Islam to Jesus Christ.

 

Testimony of the First Muslim Convert to Jesus Christ 

 

He lived during the time of Muhammad sahab  himself. Read about him:

 

"Ubaydullah went on searching until Islam came; then he migrated with the Muslims to Abyssinia taking with him his wife who was a Muslim, Umm Habiba, d. Abu Sufyan. When he arrived there he adopted Christianity, parted from Islam, and died a Christian in Abyssinia. Muhammad b. Ja`far b. al-Zubayr told me that when he had become a Christian `Ubaydullah as he passed the prophet's companions who were there used to say: `We see clearly, but your eyes are only half open,' i.e. `We see, but you are only trying to see and cannot see yet.' He used the word sa'sa' because when a puppy tries to open its eyes to see, it only half sees. The other faqqaha means to open the eyes. After his death the apostle married his widow Umm Habiba." (Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad, tr. Guillaume, 1967, p. 99).

 

A Possible Biblical View about Muslims

 

2 Corinthians 3: 14 is true for every Muslim “But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.”

 

We have seen Muhammad sahab himself confessing that there are many things which are unclear in Quran, the first convert from Islam to Christianity testifying that we see clearly and the Holy Bible itself saying their minds are blinded.

Is it not time for us to preach the Gospel as in Acts of Apostles and bring people to the knowledge of Christ? “Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away” ( 2 Corinthians 3:16).

 

Question: It is scriptural to debate. Agreed. Is there any historical evidence of Muslim conversion because of apologetics?

 

 

Answer: There are many. After this debate itself, I am told that there are a few Muslims who came to Christ. Since this question is more broad and about results of apologetics among Muslims, you might want to read this article from National Review: Islam’s ‘Public Enemy #1’ Coptic priest Zakaria Botros fights fire with fire by Raymond Ibrahimhttp://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=NTUwY2QyNjA0NjcwMjExMzI2ZmJiZTEzN2U1YjYyZjE=

 

Question: What is the role Sakshi going to play in the evangelization of Muslims?

 

 

Answer:

 

Sakshi Willing to be A Partner with as Many as People, Contact Us Please

 

Sakshi, as it name goes is an apologetics network in India. It would love to network through as many as Churches, Para Churches and Individuals to train and equip people in apologetics, particularly in religious apologetics- Islam and Hinduism. If your Church is ready, we are willing to train. If your para Church is ready, we are willing to train. If you as an individual would like to get trained, we are willing. Please contact us so that we may be beneficent to the body of Christ.

 

One last Question: IREF website says that you are a converted Christian? What is your background?

 

 

Answer: Every Christian is a converted Christian. There are no born Christians. There are only born again Christians. As the famous saying goes- Go

d is the not the grand father of anyone but He is the Father of all of us.

 

IREF is Wrong Again!!!

 

Of course, I know that your question is more of whether I do have a Christian background. Yes I do have a Christian background. IREF website is once again wrong!!!

 

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26 Responses

  1. Praise The Lord

    Dear, Bro. Jerry.

    I would be happy if more printed material is distributed, in churches of smaller towns and villages throughout India. This vision will be possible by local Christian support and unity among Christian of all denomination.

    It will be really good if the Debate video is aired on Christian TV.

    I would like to tell you that the peaceist are afraid of our comments on this website, I am waiting for the day when the Peaceist cult is exposed.

    Once again thank you.

    Peaceist- A neo Islamic cult, followers of Ahmed Dedat(RIP), Dr. Zakir Naik, Br. Imran.

    The word peaceist is not literally derived from Peace but named after Peace TV and its interactive viewers.

  2. Dear, Brothers and sisters. Zakir Naik has once again attacking Christianity and non muslim.

    Please check this link it is about Death penalty given to people who convert from islam. This recorded interview was given by him to a Pakistani TV. It is the must watch video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRl5c-xPVA0&feature=related

  3. Dear Borther, It was a very good debate and i was there at that time. It even helped many other believers who want to discuss with muslim people.

  4. Good one! :)

  5. I liked this- “Remember historically Christians have silenced Muhammad sahab himself in a public debate.”

    Can a Zakir and Imran stand when thier prophet could not?

  6. MUSALMAN wrote “Zakir Naik has once again attacking Christianity and non muslim.” dear musalman it is their religion to attack and destroy every body who dont join them.i like zakir for he is true to his faith ,he never add sugar coat and say islam is the religion of peace.so if they does something then dont be shock ,coz dock barks ,birds fly do u know why? that is their nature

    :grin

  7. After the wrong headline and the content of the news report of may 10th Debate. Are Christian in AP going to trust such news paper.

    I would like to know who was the reporter and who edited the copy. may be the editor or the reporter are Secret Peaceist.

    About regional news media

    according to media report these channels of media either print or TV, are revenue earning compare to English medium.

    Use of product placement and PR (public relation)

    Apart from advertising revenue now days media is also earning from Product placement and PR. In this,A product or a brand is used in the news content and story. More positive words are used to describe the benefits of the brand or the product.

    At time the name of the brand is repetitively called out. This tactics are used when the product is failed in the market. Hence this done to create develop public relation

    PR these days is widely use by Political parties Baba Religious Organisation.

    Thank you GJrocks for your comment. I hope you watched the Video Death Penalty For Apostates Zakir Naik interview In Pakistan TV

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRl5c-xPVA0&feature=related

    I was wondering as Zakir naik is India acts like a loving and non violent muslim, But on his visits to Muslim dominated countries he Turn out the real follower of the religion of peace.

    This was the secular media which exposed him

  8. While I am convinced that arguing,clarifying and persuading is scriptural just like paul did; I am not sure weather the debate that we have these days is scriptural.

    The kind of debates that we have these days are more like a boxing ring match or a stage show where each tries to punch the other till one wins.Its not struggling to know the truth but hurting each other to win.At the end there are more people who are hurt than saved, there are more walls than bridges and more steam than good will. :upset

  9. I highly recommend “Christian” to read his/her Bible properly before assuming a difference between the current debates and early debates of Apostles. While we may not have the benefit of the entire transcripts of the debates of Apostles, we do have some responses from audience-

    Acts 9: 29 And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Hellenists but they attempted to KILL HIM. Were the hellenist hurt or offended because of the debate? Seems so. Further, we have the benefit of transcripts of Church Fathers debates many of them who were first generation or second generation direct disciples of Apostles. Can “Christian” read those and plz highlight the differences between current and those debates. So please do not assume things and try to bring a contrast between the current and previous debates. I request you to read the Holy Bible without politically correct specks.

  10. Dear all,

    We’ve already seen how IREF has hidden its humilating loss behing the “Conversion” of Bro Benhur who is now Eesa. But this is another gimmick. We all now know that all was well planned and IREF had foreknowledge of everything. Also, Bro Imran himself said that he visits Sakshi website and he didn’t have the guts to refute a single comment here with scriptural or logical reference. I would like to “challenge” Bro Imran in his own words… a lifetime challenge to come in this forum and refute all that is recorded. I also would like to challenge bro Eesa to come to this forum and publicly present what is his take on the truth… this again is a lifetime challenge… blank check… Lets see if Bro Imran has the guts to stand ground after all this.

  11. I don’t see it impossible for a Christian to leave his sweet saviour and Lord GOd Jesus Christ and go to Allah. After all, we are human beings, given the power of choice.

    I reckon the radical views expressed here are because we christians cannot understand how on earth and by what logic one would choose to do what we consider the stupidest thing.

    I do not dispute the fact that Benhur could have been born into a Christian family, and have been attracted to Islam. I might even be willing to stretch it further to accommodate that Benhur was a Christian himself, but had backslidden. These are quite possible, you would agree.

    You would also agree that it takes some mental preparation to stand up before a 10K crowd and publicly accept apostasy. I don’t know if Benhur came prepared for this, but it is also technically possible that he might not have.

    The only thing that insults my intelligence and common sense is “How on Earth can somebody ever embrace Islam, after that Tom&Jerry+Bodmas+insults+nonsense+ nothing-from-the-scriptures-to-prove-his-case presentation from Imran that evening?” That’s something I really cannot understand at all, though I should agree that theoretically that is also possible.

    But,

    when I read somewhere (on the IREF site?) that Benhur had been associated with IREF since the past 8 months, well, his apostasy does not come so much as a surprise. If Benhur had been an IREF student, and had been considering turning apostate, he could well have chosen the Debate to let that be known publicly. I am not saying that he was motivated by the IREF to do so, but the evidence of Imran’s foreknowledge seems to suggest otherwise.

    We may or may not see Esaa on some more IREF platforms, but that’s just an assumption. Muslims consider a debate a war, and their religion allows them to lie in a war. So they might not feel any remorse or guilt in misleading people with such propaganda.

    Let us not be carried away by the brand name of the newspapers who “reported” the debate.Having worked with newspapers and other media, I can tell you that all it takes is a journalist with a motive to twist facts. But isn’t it amazing how our LORD shames the wicked in their own plans? I really can’t understand how the IREF would have the audacity to display a lie in the Telugu newspaper: if only they had just read it once (but then, the Eenaadu is not published in Arabic), they could have avoided making fools of themselves yet again. The battle belongs to the LORD, brothers and sisters; we’ve been seeing this so very clearly. And I can testify that my faith has increased after this debate, by realising once more that we have a prayer answering God.

    All that I can say is, let us remember the lost sheep, if he is, in prayer.

  12. Bro. Sherry I would like to remind you the fact which you and me and all the believers of Christ Jesus are aware of, that the moment He has blessed us with salvation and adopted us to His kingdom, He has renewed (all the human beings has, but never will practices) the understandings of good and bad, love and abhorrence, proper behavior and hurting or insulting. A nonbeliever definitely doesn’t have the knowledge, or in other words they don’t want to know about it. Bro. Christian is a nonbeliever; he is simply expressing himself, that is it. Let us pray for him, Christ will change him.

  13. i am so sorry for the mistake i have done by using the name of bro.christien instead of bro.Benhur . Bro.Christien please forgive me.

  14. Hi benny,May your tribe increase.Did I say I am against debates? Read carefully what I said:

    “The kind of debates that we have these days are more like a boxing ring match or a stage show where each tries to punch the other till one wins.Its not struggling to know the truth but hurting each other to win.At the end there are more people who are hurt than saved, there are more walls than bridges and more steam than good will”

    Are you saying the kind of debates I mentioned above is scriptural or even good? if not,there is no arguement.Also by mentioning the above,I did not say there wont be any persecutions.For their will be always persecution to the gospel.But lets not get persecuted for wrong reasons.

    Methods can vary as per the context but as “saved sinners” coming out of darkness and blidness caused by sin and satan, we must think – “which can be the best way to present the gospel so as to see the listener is open to the nudging of the holy spirit? Would you be open to the gospel in a hostile enviroment where you only want to see is your “leader wins?” if you still think that is THE BEST OPTION,then there is no arguement-All the best to you.

    “To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some.And I do all things for the sake of the gospel..” [1Corinth 9:22-23] :)

  15. 1) You have not given me any evidence that there is a difference between the current and early debates mentioned in the scripture. I have pointed out the response of audience when they heard Paul debating

    2) You are asking me to consider the “practical” results. Do you have any data to show that debates are counter-productive as you seems to assume

    3) Best Way is to obey the scripture and rest Holy Spirit will take care.

    4) I can show you the organizations which shun debates now are comprmising on the Gospel itself. Henry Martin Institute. They are into “building bridges”. Once Henry Martin Institute was one of the best but now they are thinking the “best way” to preach the Gospel and have become best comprmisers. I thank God for ministries like Sakshi taking a bolder and uncompromising stand which gives a lot of confidence to Christians.

    4) If you are open to listen to me, please watch the video on YouTube -interview of Gilchrist by Jay Smith. You will know the long-term results of debates. Remember Jay Smith himself is an evangelist and a debater.

    5)Applying 1 Corinth 9:22-23, you should be a cultural Muslim to a Muslim. Muslims consider debates as an avenue to share thier faith then we also should consider debates as an avenue to share our faith.

    6) Even if you totally reject whatever I tried to tell, I am very happy as long as you are not a talker but a doer. If you are really working to save people, then I will pray for you even though we may not agree with each other on methods.

    7) If your reason is practical consideration, then go ahead and do as you wish. But then do not try to debate that the current debates and debates in the scriptures are different. You are trying to impose your meaning into the scripture which the text does not say.

    8) Finally, the authority over all Christians is the Bible. If the Bible commands and shows by the example of Apostles, that debate is correct, who is anyone to oppose it.

  16. Day One – No reply from Imran/IREF. Looks like Bro Imran talks in air when he says “lifetime challenge”.

  17. My dear brother benny,Let me answer your response in short.my response is below your query with an arrow marked->:

    1) “You have not given me any evidence that there is a difference between the current and early debates mentioned in the scripture.

    ->The diffrence that I sense is in the “win or loose” attitude. The opponent[muslims]has already taken their stand about their faith, rejected the christian beleifs ,continously speak against christ nature.whereas the audience of paul are freshers.there was a need to establish the doctrine of christ to this new mission field.secondly, A muslim apologist mainly invites a christian to mock and do a parade.If a christian loose this debate then they consider christianity as totally false and baseless religion thus trying to confirm their own beleif which they have done many times in the past with others.they invite christians to mock than seek the truth.But if they loose the debate which is never accepted like in this case,they reason it as a “weak reasoning” of that brother and does not accept it as falsehood.islam is still the truth for them weather they loose or win.so its starts with a wrong premise.For them its all “win-win” situation and a mocking stage show against christians.Thus they invite a christian to come and debate not to clarify the truth but to mock them,thus moving further from truth.On the venue its more of “who wins the match?” I dont see such situtaion in the scriptures where paul or the opponents entered in such “win-win or win-loose debates”.infact I see paul leaving the place when the opponents invited him to such debate[acts 17:32-33].Jesus said ” Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. [Matthew 7:6 ]

    2) You are asking me to consider the “practical” results. Do you have any data to show that debates are counter-productive as you seems to assume.

    ->The practical results matter to both God and the evangelist.his primary motive is not to win a debate but save the person.I have seen with my limited understanding Non-debates[like preaching,teaching,tracts,personal evangelism,crusades,dialogues with people of other faiths etc]more productive than few debates where some might get saved.I am sure your own experience and conscience has witnessed this fact.you can compare the data if you have about debates and nondebates and think which one is productive.

    3) Best Way is to obey the scripture and rest Holy Spirit will take care.

    ->I agree and thats what I too insist.

    4) I can show you the organizations which shun debates now are comprmising on the Gospel itself. Henry Martin Institute. They are into “building bridges”. Once Henry Martin Institute was one of the best but now they are thinking the “best way” to preach the Gospel and have become best comprmisers. I thank God for ministries like Sakshi taking a bolder and uncompromising stand which gives a lot of confidence to Christians.

    ->I am sorry to hear about such organisation.I also thank and pray for organisation like sakshi,jerry and associates. methods to reach out can be compromised or varied as per context and need but not the gospel.For me,building bridges is not equal to compromising the gospel.The phrase “building the bridges or looking for bridges” is more based on 1peter 3:15-16 and inviting muslim to hear the gospel with respect and gentleness and not blocking or cutting the nose and give a rose to smell.

    4) If you are open to listen to me, please watch the video on YouTube -interview of Gilchrist by Jay Smith. You will know the long-term results of debates. Remember Jay Smith himself is an evangelist and a debater.

    ->I appreciate it.I have read about the debates of jay smith. But can the same method be applied everywhere to have the result especially in india.can jay smith do that in pakistan,saudi arabia,malaysia etc.so you see it depend on the context and political climate.jay lives in more secular state where people are more open to ideas and philosophies.

    5)Applying 1 Corinth 9:22-23, you should be a cultural Muslim to a Muslim. Muslims consider debates as an avenue to share thier faith then we also should consider debates as an avenue to share our faith.

    ->No,I am not a cultural muslim missionary.I am a christian.I do use apologetics as a tool to heal and win than a sword.I try my best [though i fail at times]to share christ with humility,fear and trembling lest anyone be lost or run away due to my swollen head and shrunken heart.

    6) Even if you totally reject whatever I tried to tell, I am very happy as long as you are not a talker but a doer. If you are really working to save people, then I will pray for you even though we may not agree with each other on methods.

    ->No, I dont reject all that you said bcos thats your perspective.I respect it.sure,you can pray for me brother.I am still learning and trying to be doer of the word and I do fail many times.

    7) If your reason is practical consideration, then go ahead and do as you wish. But then do not try to debate that the current debates and debates in the scriptures are different. You are trying to impose your meaning into the scripture which the text does not say.

    ->I am not imposing anything dear one,but sharing my concerns and desire that we all do the best in presenting christ.

    Finally, the authority over all Christians is the Bible. If the Bible commands and shows by the example of Apostles, that debate is correct, who is anyone to oppose it.

    ->you are right that no one must oppose the scripture and I dont intentionally or unintenionally anywhere trying to oppose it.just the way I see in the scripture is diffrent.does my interpretation of seeing debate in this way harm the major doctrine of the scripture? I am only seeing “methods” of reaching others with concern and not the major doctrine.For I submit to all the evangelical doctrines.

    Yes the bible shows with example about debates [not commands]but we must know how to interpret it.For example, the bible mentions with example about polygamy in great saints from abraham,david to solomon and on. Just because the scripture mentions it, we cannot interpret that into our life.

  18. My dear “Christian”: Since both of us agree on this: 3) Best Way is to obey the scripture and rest Holy Spirit will take care.

    ->I agree and thats what I too insist.

    The only thing that we need to discuss further is what the Bible says about this. I checked the verse you quoted Acts 17:32-34 ” And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked while others said: “we will hear you again on this matter” So Paul departed from among them. However, some men joined him and believed.

    I am yet to read the invitation for debate in the text as you wrote. That is the meaning that you imposed to support your meaning. Some mocked- they did not invite for a debate. Some said-we will hear you more- that looks like a seeker. So where is the invite for debate???

    “Christian” gentleness and meekness is not our pretension of down face, low voice but obedinece to the Holy Bible even when its commandments are uncomfortable.

    1 Peter 3:14 says do not be afraid of thier threats!!! The audience of 1 Peter 3:15 seems to be very earnest seekers!!!

    I read Matthew 7: 6 and I am yet to understand from the text anything about debates.

    But when I read the verses that Bro. Jerry quoted in the interview, the text itself was clear that it is of debates.

    Which one should I believe??

    In my understanding meekness and humbleness is obedience to the scripture even when the scripture is uncomfortable to us. And not about saying that I speak like this and this.

    “Christian”, I am really surprised by your comments. First you said Paul’s debate and the current debates are different. You agree for Paul’s debate. Now you write

    “Yes the bible shows with example about debates [not commands]but we must know how to interpret it.For example, the bible mentions with example about polygamy in great saints from abraham,david to solomon and on. Just because the scripture mentions it, we cannot interpret that into our life.”

    If Paul debates were like David’s or Solomon’s polygamy (that seems to be waht you are indicating), thereby Paul was totally wrong through out his life, I am sorry to say, I would not like to discuss with you on this matter any further. I think if Paul was wrong in debating, he would have done it only once or twice but would not have continued in it.

    “Christian” your problem is you have made up your mind. Now, once you will say Paul’s debate and current debates are different. When it is pointed out from the audience response that Paul’s debates seems to be very much like the current debates, then you cast doubt whether Paul was doing the right thing. Then you read into the text sentences which are totally not there.

    Humility is obedience to the scripture and not pretending like a soft guy.

    Just because you asked me about my own “own experience and conscience has witnessed this fact”. Sorry. I am yet to see a single crusade with more than 10000 non CHristians. But I saw that in the debates where they hear the Gospel. Crusades are for CHristians, of Christians and by Christians.

  19. Dear Bro Christian,I wish to share with you about our muslim brothers and sisters,from my own experience.

    Many of our dear muslims are not willing to listen to any religious matter, be it in any kind of discussions in any form, unless their scholares are defeated or their scholars are left speechless and fumbling for excuses to defend themselves, inorder to save their face and status before their opponent christians. It is only at this point that the Muslims will stop to listen to anything that we christians may have to say.

    And, I personally feel, that is because unlike we christians, for whom Bible is the authority, because of which we dont blindly believe in what our leaders say,without checking for evidences; for the Muslims, their scholars are their authority. Whatever the scholars tell them, they believe it blindly.

    Dont we all know how all muslims know the arabic Quran, all by hearted in their memory. But how many of our indian muslims really understand the meaning of those arabic words in it. Again they depend on their scholars to know its menaing. Their scholars smartly, without any guilt feeling twist words and meanings to make those muslims to stay in their islamic faith. After all, the Quran itself givess permission to lie for the sake of religion.

    So you see, truth is mixed with lies. Islam doesnt teach pure truth!!!!!

  20. dear benny,To avoid covering lots of space in this forum, let me put my thoughts in points to your above response and close .

    1.Please do read again what I said about the diffrence between the apostolic and current debate.the main thought was the way muslims conduct the debate to invite christians to do a mock show.the intention behind the debate is mocking the christian and his beleifs.They have already taken their stand about of what they must do and is not open to the truth.its only an invitation to a mocking stage show and not a debate where a christian and his beleifs is the object of rididcule.Jesus warns us in Matthew 7: 6 of people who have hardened their stands to mock God’s word(holy,pearls).Please do take time study on that verse.In Acts 17:32-33, Why did paul leave when they wanted to hear more? maybe verse 21 and 32 has to do something to it.

    2.Meekness,gentleness and respect is definitely obedience to the scripture but also the way you present the truth.1peter 3:15-16 is very clear of how one presents the truth in obedience.I dont think imran was presenting his views with gentleness and respect even though he was obeying his faith. one can be arrogant and proud while presenting the truth which can take away the other person far from the truth.

    3.when I talked about polygamy,I was talking in context of how one interprets the scriptures.Please take time to read carefully my response in context to what you said.it seems you are just glancing at my response and assuming things that I have not said.I did not say paul’s debate are like polygamy of the old testament saints and neither anywhere I said paul was doing wrong by debating.the context is what you said as follows:

    “Finally, the authority over all Christians is the Bible. If the Bible commands and shows by the example of Apostles, that debate is correct, who is anyone to oppose it”

    my response is that I agree with you about the scripture but how does one interpret it is the larger issue.Just because something is mention in the scripture with examples, does not mean the same context applies to us.for example polygamy is mentioned in the bible with example of great saints-does our interpretation leads us to think polygamy is right?-the answer is obvious resounding NO because we are intrepreting it for us in a wrong way.

    The second context is where you mentioned that “the Bible commands and shows by the example of Apostles, that debate is correct”:-NO the bible is silent in commanding “Thou must debate to share the gospel” because a debate is a method and not a doctrine.if paul debated then he did it because it was his method and not a doctrine. method can vary from person to person and context to context and we need to weigh the consequences in our context lest the lost be lost forever.

    Now let me tie down to what I explained above in context:

    Does the bible COMMANDS us to debate:NO ,maybe I need to study more. but it surely give us examples of how paul reasoned within the new mission field.(we are suppose to give an answer to the hope we are called with gentleness and respect-1peter 3:15)

    Do we see “debate” in the scriptures- YES, but we need to see HOW, is it an invitation like muslim does today to mock and not seek the truth.Just because we see the word “Debate” we bring our own version of debate.we need to see the context and nessecity.

    Can we debate like Paul-Undeniably YES

    Is it a debate when a person has already taken his stand and not open to the truth (a muslim dawah) and challenges the other party(A christian apologist) to be only mocked and after loosing shows people getting converted to islam (preplanned): NO its not a debate.its an entertainment match and trap.

    Should we debate? – YES, take every oppurtunity to share the gospel,But be a part of the plan in such a way that it should not be like a “who wins or loose” or a “mocking parade”.

    Finally when I talked about crusades and other ways reaching out,The context was how productive it is. I was not talking about number of christian or nonchristian attending but how productive it is when it comes to conversion and the consequences that follows when we debate in such terms.

    Note:Discussions always changes me when reasons are valid and God’s kingdom extends inspite of my limitations.therefore dont assume before time that I have made up my mind and dont assume I am pretending.lets not accuse or insult each other-we are not enemies but have one lord,king and savior Jesus chirst and one enemy- the devil.

  21. Hi,

    “Please do read again what I said about the diffrence between the apostolic and current debate.the main thought was the way muslims conduct the debate to invite christians to do a mock show.”

    Answer: Please read the 1 Peter 3:14 as you were quoting 1 Peter 3:15. 1 Peter 3:15 occurs on the context of presecution. Mocking is also a form of presecution. In fact, most of the Apostle Paul’s debate occured in the context of presecution which included mocking and killing.

    2) You are still assuming that Acts 17:32-33 was an invite for a debate. If the text is silent, let us not speak for it.

    3. Did you mean to say 1 Peter 3:15 is for Imran? I have nothing to say for this interpetation.

    4. Jesus Christ entered into heated question and answer session with Pharisees who REJECTED the Gospel. Apostle Paul did the same. We are asked to follow the example of Apostles as long as they follow the example of Christ. So there is a command to follow thier example. (Meekness and gentleness is adherence to the Bible and not speaking in a low voice. Just read our pattern and LORD Jesus Christ’s speeches against Pharisees).

    5. 2 Timothy 4: 2-5 “Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, REBUKE and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in ALL situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

    6. Brother “Christian”: I can make a guess. You have not seen any videos/live propagation methods of Dawah against Gospel. Please watch PeaceTV of Zakir Naik. Listen how they are speaking blasphemies. I am extremely glad that this debate happened where a major blasphemer in India is silenced.

    Bye take care.

  22. dear,

    christian and benny. I would like to tell you that the peaceist are running away from us.

    I am happy to see the zeal in you.

  23. bible has someny errors then best is quran i will convert islam best you also convert islam this is best way for life i think

  24. I saw your debate with Imran you r very good

  25. It was very Good.
    Many times i watch Brother Jerrys refuting videos,That are really nice.

  26. Your debate was so good. May God give you strength .

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