Dawah Preacher M.M. Akbar Should Leave Islam, if He is Honest

37 Comments

1. 

   GEORGE JOHN on 2008-09-12 at 7:23 am

   great work brother..God bless.

   if one david can beat giant goliath then what will happned if 1000 rise? the only weapon to beath these false preachers is TRUTH.

   • 

     MAvayalilakath on 2015-03-18 at 9:32 pm

     Now let us see the purpose attributed to Quran and Bible by the religious leaders, WORSHIP.

     Moses never taught his nation how to worship God, Instead he brought his nation from slavery of pharos to freedom and same is the purpose of Quran. The same purpose was achieved by Mohammad by freeing his nation from the exploitation by the rich and powerful class (Abusufiyan & Co.)

     Quran identify the darker side of life as bad news and the brighter side as good.
     It is a Human Refinery, refining people to build a civilized society. The responsibility of fulfilling this task is on BOLD, VIGILANT PEACE WORKERS (MUEMINS, MUTHAKIES & MUSLIMS) who inspired and practice this Ideology of God.
     Sura 59 Ayyat 23 clearly says that Creator is Salam and Momin
     “The source of peace
     The preserver of safety”
     1. AMNU: Bold, courageous, secure.
     2. AAMANUU: Ye who provide security and safety to the society
     3. ISLAM: Peace. Freedom, harmony in human relations.
     Ref 3:19 إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الْإِسْلَامُ ۗ Ideology of God is peace.

     So, Please we can together work for a peaceful world. No need for fighting. Many people who are involved in debating are ignorant about What is God and his Ideology. IT IS PEACE.
     ALLAH…….GOD…………HIS DIVINE RULES
     FEAR ALLAH or FEAR GOD……….MEANS THAT WE MUST FEAR IN BREAKING THESE DIVINE RULES, IF NOT, IT WILL BOOMERANG AND THE RESULT WILL BE DISASTROUS AND FAR REACHING.
     In fact we should love God for giving us this Divine Rules.

2. 

   Alex on 2008-09-12 at 1:25 pm

   Great rebuttal. I have seen most of these dawah preachers and how they distort the text of the Bible. I wonder why they lie through their teeth. Then I realized that their audience are intended to be ignorant listeners.

3. 

   truth on 2008-09-12 at 3:34 pm

   hahahahahahaha….everytime you write something you make me laugh!

4. 

   Muhammad Abdullah on 2008-10-15 at 9:59 am

   Hi All,

   Why you people deviating from the truth? what is wrong with you people? Jesus never said that he is God, even then you people started worshiping him. Where is your Orginal origin of Bible? In which language it was revealed? Show us the Orginal bible in which it revealed to Jesus? Who is the author of Bible GOD or Man?

   There were no answers to the above questions, whatever the answers you provide were only to satisfy yourselves & there is no truth in that.

   Know that there is only one GOD. The exact truth is you have deviated from the Truth. There were many bad things in the Old Testament, how you people claim that they were the word of GOD? Can’t you understand? don’t you use your sense to understand what is good and what is bad? can’t you differentiate?

   Understand with sense, If you want know the Truth read the Holy Qur’an and understand that there is only one GOD, which talks about bible in which you differ.

   Hope you guys understand. You people are not enemies to us, we are all brothers.

   Abdullah

5. 

   Prasanna on 2008-10-19 at 2:51 am

   Dear Abdullah,

   Here are the answeres to your questions:

   1. Most of the Muslims like you believe false is the ‘truth’ and the ‘truth’ is false. That’s why you’ve got that dilemma.

   2. Thankfully, Christians are not in the same state as you are. Once you come out of your false assumptions only then you will be able to appreciate the ‘truth’ and stop finding fault with the children of the ‘truth.’

   3. Jesus never said ‘I am the Messiah’ even in the Quran. Why do you Muslims belive or say that Jesus is the Messiah? Only hypocrites insist on double standards. Right?!

   4. We revere and respond to God’s original message that is able to flow through any language in the world and remain in the world till the end of time. By the way, there is no origianl Quran written by Muhammad. Even the one that was supposedly written after his death by Zaid was destroyed and a new one was compiled. That was also burned by Uthman. This is all in your Hadiths and Islamic books. If you want references I can provide for your enlightenment. First try to find the original Quran, not the copies of Uthmanic revision. If you find one then at least that provides you some moral gound to ask others to do the same. Double standard is dishonest.

   5. The Bile is the word of God, documented by men of God. What is important to us is not the material but the message. But for you, or the majority Muslims, exacltly the opposite.

   If you are honest and serious about the truth do this simple test. Take both the Bible and the Quran in any ‘one’ language (English, Telegu, Malayalam, Urdu etc.) of your choice, and give them to someone who is neither a Christian nor a Muslim and ask him/her to read both of them in order to figure out which one of them is the insane book (one that is without context, without meaningful transitions or without beginning or end to topics it introudeces). I assure you that he/she will be able to come to a sound conclusion just by reading a couple of pages from both the books. I tried and got the answer. The answer was confirming the obvious truth that stands out to any normal person who can read. I encourage you to do the same. At least that will help you to come out of your self-inflicted stupidity. I had to say this because you ventured to ask silly questions even after reading the above excellent rebuttal by Bro. Jerry Thomas.

   Abdullah, you are right at least in one statement. There is only one God. That one God loves you and desires to see you come to know the truth, that only by believing in Jesus and accepting Him as your Lord and Saviour you can enter into paradise.

   It is my prayer to the true God that you and many other Muslims may come to embrace the salvation of the true God through Jesus Christ.

   Salam,

   Prasanna.

6. 

   Muhammad Abdullah on 2008-10-27 at 10:12 am

   Dear Prassana,

   Here is the Hadith with which you are saying the Holy Qur’an was changed.

   Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510:

   Narrated Anas bin Malik:

   Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur’an, so he said to ‘Uthman, “O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before.” So ‘Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, “Send us the manuscripts of the Qur’an so that we may compile the Qur’anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you.” Hafsa sent it to ‘Uthman. ‘Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, ‘Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and ‘AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. ‘Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, “In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur’an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur’an was revealed in their tongue.” They did so, and when they had written many copies, ‘Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. ‘Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur’anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, “A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur’an and I used to hear Allah’s Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): ‘Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.’ (33.23)

   By this Hadith it proves the Holy Qur’an was never changed. And Allah clearly mentions in the Holy Qur’an.

   “We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption). [Al-Qur’an 15:9]

   And till today it is the same Holy Qur’an which we Muslims having.

   I am giving a challenge to each and every Christian present in this world.

   To test which book is the “Word of GOD” The Bible or The Qur’an?

   Let you bring any Christian brother or sister who can read it out without seeing it and without any mistakes. This is a challenge for entire Christian world.

   At the same time we will present thousands of Muslims who will read the Holy Qur’an without seeing it and without mistakes.

   Can you take this challenge? Which proves which the Word of God is. Suppose if all Bibles lost in the entire world how can you produce the bible again? Only thing is until you remember it you can be able to do so? Otherwise there is no more Bible in this world.

   But we Muslims have millions of people who have memorized the Holy Quran, we can produce the Holy Quran as it was revealed.

   Also you need to refer to Bibles written in Arabic and Urdu. You will find a shocking fact. Do you know what it is? “Jesus used to pray only Allah”. Instead of Jehova or Yehova, it was written by the name Allah. In these Bible wherever Jehova names come the authors written as Allah.

   My name is Abdullah, and my name will be the same in any language. How come Jehova name changed to ALLAH? You should think seriously about it.

   You can find the Arabic and Urdu bible from the below link.

   http://www.wbtc.com/site/PageServer?pagename=downloads_main

   Download them and read it and answer.

   Wassalam,

   Abdullah

7. 

   George on 2008-10-27 at 1:02 pm

   Muhammad Abduallah wrote:

   “Here is the Hadith with which you are saying the Holy Qur’an was changed.

   Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510:…..”

   Answer: That is not the only Hadith that refers to the compilation of quran. The Hadith immediately before that S.B Vol 6, Book 61, Num 509 quotes Zaid like this: “By Allah If they had ordered me to shift one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Qur’an.”

   If all the Muslims were quoting the same Quran then why did Zaid find it difficult to compile the Quran?

   Let us also read Volume 6, Book 60, Number 468 to know that people recited quran in different ways:

   Narrated Ibrahim:

   The companions of ‘Abdullah (bin Mas’ud) came to Abu Darda’, (and before they arrived at his home), he looked for them and found them. Then he asked them,: ‘Who among you can recite (Qur’an) as ‘Abdullah recites it?” They replied, “All of us.” He asked, “Who among you knows it by heart?” They pointed at ‘Alqama. Then he asked Alqama. “How did you hear ‘Abdullah bin Mas’ud reciting Surat Al-Lail (The Night)?” Alqama recited:

   ‘By the male and the female.’ Abu Ad-Darda said, “I testify that I heard me Prophet reciting it likewise, but these people want me to recite it:–

   ‘And by Him Who created male and female.’ but by Allah, I will not follow them.”

   FYI: The ayat regarding the stonning of adulterous are missing from the quran.

   Many more can be cited if you wish.

   Do not bring the argument of memory as an evidence of divine revelation. There are many Hindu scriptures which are commited to the memory.

   Further, there are many Jews who have been memorizing the first five books of Moses. Why don’t you accept that as the revelation then?

   I do not think Jehovah was translated as Allah ever. I think it Elohim which is translated as Allah which also should not have been. Jehovah is the personal name of the true God of true prophets and Elohim is the generic name like the english word God. In the Arabic Bhagavat Gita preface, it is translated as Allah Krishna. Allah is the genric name and the allah of the Quran is afarid to reveal his personal name lest he be exposed of his true identity.

   Now coming to you name Abdullah- it was also the name of your prophet’s father who was an idol worshipper. There was an Allah at Kabba which was a demonic god and whose front Muhammad’s father Abdullah used to bow down.

   You guys have enormous guts to leave all the writings of every other prophets and stick to one man’s writing. It is not because of any so-called corruption that you guys are rejecting the Bible, it is because your prophet contradicted all the true prophets before him.

   Think this for a moment- whatever the Jews accept as Bible is the same Old Testament of Protestants. No change absolutely. To accept Jesus, Christians did not had to reject all the previous prophets. But to accept Muhammad, Muslims has to accuse all the previous prophets.

   Think- this is for your eternal life.

8. 

   Prasanna on 2008-10-28 at 2:08 am

   Dear Abdullah,

   Here is a short list of the hadiths that bear witness to the imperfection of the Quran:

   1. Allah sent Muhammad with … and among what Allah revealed, was the verse of Rajam (the stoning of married persons, male and female, who commit adultery) and we did recite this verse and understood and memorized it. Allah’s Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 539)

   2. It had been revealed in the Qur’an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah’s Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) died and it was before that time (found) in the Qur’an (and recited by the Muslims). (Sahih Muslim 8.3421)

   3. For thirty days Allah’s Apostle invoked Allah to curse those who had killed the companions of Bir-Mauna…There was reveled about those who were killed at Bir-Mauna a Quranic Verse we used to recite, but it was cancelled later on. The Verse was: “Inform our people that we have met our Lord. He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased.” (Sahih Bukhari 4.69)

   4. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara’at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: “If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust”. ( Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501).

   The above verses are no more in the Quran you read. It is supposedly eternal and changeless! I’m sorry for being so blunt. This might hurt you. But that’s what truth does my friend.

   You raised questions of memory power in order to prove authenticity of a book. Bro. George explained it well. But it is highly unlikely that you would get it sraight since you failed to see the above sound refutation by Bro.Jerry to the so-called powerful arguments of Mr. M.M.Akbar. That’s a pity.

   Why don’t you try to read slowly and grasp what Bro.Jerry wrote and why he wrote that. If you can, show us where Bro. Jerry misquoted or argued wrongly.

   In my first response, I encouraged you to do a simple test. Suspecting the outcome you may be afraid to carry it out, never mind. But, you should have at least try to answer my question in point no. 3. You seem to be a thinking person. It shouldn’t be hard for you to answer my simple question.

   Look at the facts and respond, not in an emotional verbiage, but in wisdom and honest.

   Love and peace,

   Prasanna.

9. 

   Muhammad George on 2008-10-28 at 4:59 am

   http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

   Many of you after reading this website will know the truth and get the answers how peaceful is ISLAM and Prophet Muhammad pbuh was the true prophet. Many of you may also think to revert. Prophet Muhammad pbuh was was a merciful man.

   http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

10. 

    Prasanna on 2008-10-28 at 5:04 pm

    Dear Abdullah,

    Let me address your challenge: Yes, I can easily agree to your statement that thousands of Muslims may really have memorized the Quran in Arabic. To be honest, reading the Quran in any language itself is an agonizing experience, let alone memorizing it. Which is why, I consider memorizing the whole Quran is by far an impressive feat. So, what does this feat imply? It tells me that a portion of Muslims (less than 1% of Muslim population) are very devoted in memorizing the Quran, albeit they may have very little or no understanding of its actual meaning, and they are commendable for their memory power. They indeed mastered a book that claims to be divine in its entirety. Hats off to these Muslim friends for their hard work. It is their capacity, not the book, that needs to be praised. But, how in the world this made you to come to the strange and childish conclusion? You believe that memorizing the Quran, to the point of superstition, can constitute a proof for the divine origin of the Quran. What logic is this? You know what, this gives us the clue to understand the secret behind the popularity of Muslim apologists among their folks. My dear friend, think logically and speak honestly. Imagine yourself going to a court of law and trying to convince the judge that the Quran is truly God’s word because you have memorized it in Arabic. Can you imagine how much laughter it would generate? These are the cheap tricks Muslim apologists often employ to woo the masses of their kind. Don’t be one of them.

    One more thing, if God had instructed the believers to commit the entire Bible to memory then you would definitely have found Christians doing that. According to your faulty argument, the fact that the Bible is God’s word cannot be derived from the capacity of people’s memory power. On the contrary, it is the power and influence of the Bible on its followers that bear testimony to the fact that the Bible is truly God’s word that came to show the way of salvation to sinful humanbeings.

    Lord Jesus Christ said, “IF YOU KNOW THE TRUTH, THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.”

    Peace,

    Prasanna.

11. 

    Abdullah on 2008-10-30 at 10:21 am

    Dear Prasanna,

    Ok,Let the GOD decide who is on the right path on the Day of Judgement.

    But you need to clarify why the Bibles written in Arabic and Urdu have preferred the name of ALLAH in the place of Jehova? “Jesus used to pray only Allah”. Instead of Jehova or Yehova, it was written by the name Allah. In these Bibles wherever Jehova names come the authors written as Allah.

    My name is Abdullah, and my name will be the same in any language. How come Jehova name changed to ALLAH? Please i request you research this?

    You can find the Arabic and Urdu bible from the below link.

    http://www.wbtc.com/site/PageServer?pagename=downloads_main

    Download them and read it and answer, if you have doubt check with any person who knows Urdu and Arabic well.

    I am giving some of the verses of Bible, Can you confirm these verses of the Bible are the Word of GOD? If yes Can you read these verses in front of any Christian sisters or mothers.

    [Gen 9:21]

    Noah drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent. and Ham [his son] saw the NAKEDNESS of his father.

    [1 Sam. 19:23]

    And the spirit of God came upon Saul.. And he too STRIPPED OFF HIS CLOTHES, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay NAKED all the day and all the night.

    [2 Sam. 6:20]

    David DANCES NAKED before the people and before the Lord.

    [Gen. 19:30]

    Lot went up out of Zo’ar and dwelt in the hills with his two daughters.

    And the first-born said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is

    not a man on earth to come to us after the manner of all the earth.

    COME LET US MAKE OUR FATHER DRINK WINE AND WE WILL LIE WITH HIM, that we

    may preserve offspring through our father. So they made their father drink

    wine that night; AND THE FIRST BORN WENT IN AND LAY WITH HER FATHER; HE

    DID NOT KNOW WHEN SHE LAY DOWN OR WHEN SHE AROSE.

    And on the next day, the first-born said to the younger “Behold, I lay

    last night with my father, let us make him drink wine tonight also; then

    you go in and lie with him that we may preserve offspring through our

    father.

    So they made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger

    arose, and LAY WITH HIM; and he did not know when she lay down or when

    she arose. THUS BOTH THE DAUGHTERS OF LOT WERE WITH CHILD BY THEIR FATHER.

    [2.Sam. 11:1]

    David arose from his couch and was walking upon the roof that he saw

    from the roof a WOMAN BATHING; and the woman was very beautiful, and

    David sent and enquired about the woman. And one said, “Is not that

    Bathshe’ba, the daughter of Eli’am, the wife of Uri’ah the Hittite?”

    So David send messengers and took her, and SHE CAME TO HIM AND HE

    LAY WITH HER.. Then she returned to her house; and she sent and told

    David, I am with child. David called her husband, and invited him,

    and ate in his presence and drank, so that he made him drunk. In the

    morning David wrote to Jo’ab, “Set Uri’ah in the forefront of the

    hardest fighting, and then draw back from him, that he may be struck

    down and die.

    When he died David sent and brought Uri’ah’s wife to his house, and

    she became his wife.

    [2.Sam. 13:1] Amnon the son of David fell in love with his sister Ta’-mar.

    “Amnon was so tormented that he made himself ill because of his sister

    Ta’-mar; for she was a virgin, and it seemed impossible to Amnon to do

    anything to her.

    Amnon had a friend who said to him, “Lie down on your bed and pretend to

    be ill, and when [your father] the king comes to see you, you say to him:

    let my sister Ta’-mar come and give bread to eat from her hand. David sent

    Ta’-mar to her brother and ordered her to feed her brother by her hand.

    Ta’-mar took the cakes she had made, and brought them into the chamber to

    Amnon, but when she brought them near him to eat, he took hold of her,

    and said to her, “Come, lie with me, my sister”, she said, “No my brother,

    do not force me.” But he would not listen to her; and being stronger than

    she, he forced her, and lay with her.”

    Songs. 4:1]

    Behold you are beautiful my love. YOUR LIPS are like a scarlet thread your

    cheeks are like halves of a pomegranate, your neck like the tower of David.

    YOUR TWO BREASTS are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. How sweet is your

    love my sister, my bride, how much better is your love than wine. How graceful

    are your feet in sandals, O queenly maiden!

    YOUR ROUNDED THIGHS are like jewels, the work of a master hand. YOUR NAVEL is

    rounded bowl that never lacks mix wine. YOUR BELLY is heap of wheat, encircled

    with lilies. YOUR TWO BREASTS are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle.

    Song. 8:8]

    We have a little sister, and she has no breasts. What shall we do for our

    sister on the day when is spoken for? I was a wall, and MY BREASTS WERE LIKE

    TOWERS.

    [Prov. 5:18]

    REJOICE WITH THE WIFE of your youth. Let her be as the loving hind and

    pleasant roe; LET HER BREASTS SATISFY YOU AT ALL TIMES.

    THE STORY OF THE TWO PROSTITUTES – AHO’LAH & A-HOL-I-BAH

    ——————————————————–

    [Ezek. 23:2]

    THE WORD “BASTARD” IN THE BIBLE !!

    ———————————-

    [Deut. 23:2] A BASTARD should not enter into the congregation of the Lord.

    [Hebrew 12:8] Then you are BASTARDS, and not sons. (K.J.V)

    [Hebrew 12:8] It means you are not real sons, but BASTARDS. (G.N.B)

    There were still many more verses in the Bible like this, If you want I will send it to you and can post them on the Home page of Sakshi times for the better understanding of the Bible.

    Prasanna, try to understand these verses, Are these verses came from GOD? If any one reads these verses of Bible, the people will understand clearly which is the Word of GOD.

12. 

    George on 2008-10-30 at 2:21 pm

    Abduallah, you are not reading either the article or the replies posted. You are only recycling the baseless arguments by your defeated Dawah preacher Imran.

    Let me answer a few of your ‘new’ recycled charges:

    1. You have problem with Bible accurately recording the sins of prophets like David and Beersheba. This has already been answered by Bro. Jerry in this article.

    However, Bible does not promote adultery. It condemns it. What about your Quran?

    Your Quran Promotes Rape and Adultery

    (a) Sex Slaves Promoted by Allah the pagan god:

    Not so the worshippers, who are steadfast in prayer, who set aside a due portion of their wealth for the beggar and for the deprived, who truly believe in the Day of Reckoning and dread the punishment of their Lord (for none is secure from the punishment of their Lord); who restrain their carnal desire (save with their wives and their slave girls, for these are lawful to them: he that lusts after other than these is a transgressor…” Quran, 70:22-30, Dawood.

    “…who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them…” Quran, 23:5,6, Dawood.

    Also reference 4:24 and 33:50.

    Do you think the True God will allow rape of slave girls?

    Further, while Bible asks a man to enjoy his wife in this world, Allah of the Quran gives sexual objects in Paradise:

    Thus (shall it be), and We will wed them with Houris, pure, beautiful ones.” The Evident Smoke, 44:54 Shakir2

    … They shall recline on couches lined with thick brocade, and within reach will hang the fruits of both gardens. … Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched (opening their HYMENS WITH SEXUAL INTERCOURSE) before. … Virgins as fair as corals and rubies…. The Beneficent, 55:54-58 Dawood3

    In each there shall be virgins chaste and fair. … Dark eyed virgins sheltered in their tents whom neither man nor jinnee would have touched before. They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets. … The Beneficent 55:70-77 Dawood

    We created the Houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those of the right hand… That Which is Coming, 56:36 Dawood

    As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and HIGH BOSOMED virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup. The Tidings, 78:31-33 Dawood

    What about women in paradise? Allah seems to have been a sixth century man who lusted after many woman to make such promises to his lustfull followers.

    This is just what Allah promised and commanded. Do you want us to start on the false prophet Muhammad who is your pattern and model. You will cry when you hear about him. Do let me know and I will publish a list of his lecherous actions.

    So the difference between the Holy Bible and the Quran is this-

    Quran records the rape as a command and approval but the Holy Bible records it to condemn it.

    Still you want us to accept Quran???

    Sorry brother. we know enough about your false religion. visit http://www.answering-islam.org/index.html

13. 

    Prasanna on 2008-10-31 at 1:35 am

    You asked:

    But you need to clarify why the Bibles written in Arabic and Urdu have preferred the name of ALLAH in the place of Jehova? “Jesus used to pray only Allah”. Instead of Jehova or Yehova, it was written by the name Allah. In these Bibles wherever Jehova names come the authors written as Allah.

    Answer:

    For your kind information, the word ‘Allah’ is not introduced by Muhammad, rather he manipulated it. It was already in use by the pagan Arabs as well as the Christian Arabs even before Muhammad was born. The Arabic word ‘Allah’ has four different connotations:

    1) It refers to the high god in the pantheon of pagan god’s of Arabia. For example: before Muhammad was born, when a pagan Arab referred to Allah he was not having Muhammad’s god in view, but the highest god within a group of gods. For more clarification you can read pre-Islamic literature in Arabic. That will liberate you from your narrow understanding of the word Allah.

    2) It refers to the biblical God (i.e. Trinitarian) of the Arabic Christians Ex. even before Muhammad’s birth, Christians in Arabia had been using the word ‘Allah.’ They used it in reference to the God of the Bible (Father, Son and the Holy Spirit), but not the god of the Quran. Moreover, it is used as a generic noun like God, but not as a name. For more clarification you can read the Arabic Bible and see yourself that the word ‘Allah’ is used for the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 5:5; 1:8-12, Acts 5:3-4)

    3) It refers to the generic noun of any deity, true or false, just like god in English. Ex. In Quran you’ve got a number of examples of this kind. Here is one in Arabic transliteration: Quran 15:96

    Am lahum ilahun ghayru Allahi subhana Allahi ‘amma yushrikuna

    In this verse Quran is using Allah clearly in reference to false god. You can also find the word Allah referring to false deities elsewhere in the Quran—52:43, 7:140, 20:88, 17:22,

    4) Finally, it refers to the Quranic god. Only in this case, the word ‘Allah’ is a proper noun.

    It might be shocking to you to realize that even Jesus is referred to as Allah in the Arabic Bible, in the sense of the second meaning of the above connotations. Ex. Isaiah 9:6; John 20:28; Acts 20:28; Romans.9:5; Philippians 2:6; Titus2:10-13; Hebrews 1:8-12.

    Now, coming to your above question. In the light of the above meanings of the word ‘Allah’ it shouldn’t be difficult for any thinking person to understand why the Bibles written in Arabic and Urdu have used Allah in the place of God. But for the name of God, which is YHWH, like the English translations, the Arabic Bibles used ‘Rabb’ which means ‘LORD.’ This is to treat God’s name as holy and sacred. By the way, like most of the Muslim apologists you showed your true color in stating, “in these Bibles wherever Jehova names come the authors written as Allah.” This is a plain lie. Read the Arabic Bible again. Here is an example of a verse in Arabic transliteration. Deuteronomy 6:14-15: “You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are all around you (for the LORD (YHWH) your God is a jealous God among you), lest the anger of the LORD (YHWH) your God be aroused against you and destroy you from the face of the earth.”

    Laa tasiiru waraa’a aalihatin ukhratin min aalihati ‘l-umami ‘llati Hawlakum li’anna ‘r-rabba ilaahakum ilaahun ghayuurun fii waStikum li’alla yaHma ghaDabu ‘r-rabbi ilaahikum `alaykum fayubiidakum `an wajhi ‘l-arDi

    In the above verses the name of God, YHWH, is translated as ‘Rabb.’ Not Allah. Abdullah, why did you lie. True God doesn’t need lies to defend him. By this, I understand whom you serve. Why are you afraid of telling the truth?

    With the above lies you went on to quote the Bible verses which seemed strange to you. Yet you conveniently forgot to mention what Bro. George showed from your own Quran. If you read other articles by Bro. Jerry Thomas on this site, then you can see how the Quran also talks in these lines. But the difference is the Bible condemns sinful actions and intentions and uses them to forewarn us, whereas the Quran commends and justifies them.

    The point of the verses (you quoted) is basically to show us how sinful man is. Even prophets were human beings and thereby they too found themselves in sinful actions. That’s why God had to come down as man in order to prepare the way of salvation. Lord Jesus is not just a prophet, he is more than a prophet, God in the flesh. He came to save us. He loves us, that’s why he took our punishment upon himself and offered us forgiveness. Ask him, he will offer you the forgiveness you need. If not you will be terrified by his very presence when he comes to judge the world in his second coming.

    By the way, I am praying for your salvation before the true God.

    Love,

    Prasanna.

14. 

    Prasanna on 2008-10-31 at 11:02 am

    Dear friend Abdullah,

    Some more thoughts…

    The true God hates sin, loves righteousness and offers salvation. That’s why God’s word the Bible talks about all these in detail. Man failed God in living up to 100% pure in thought, word and deed. An honest recounting of the sinful actions or intentions is a part of being truthful, even if it is unpleasant to the hearer. Only the father of lies, Satan, tries to water down sins, and even makes them lawful and appealing. That’ is the difference between the God of the Bible and the god of the Quran. True God has no qualms in presenting sin as it is. Talking about sin does not make God less-God or non-God. Think straight. Don’t expect the true God to be restricted to talking only what pleases you. Don’t ever try to be God’s judge by trying to find fault with God’s ways. That will lead you to terrible punishment. Confess your wickedness and accept God’s judgment, my friend. That is good for you.

    God of the Bible hates sin for it is contradictory to his nature. He sees sin as it is, even if it is committed by his trusted prophets. He punishes anybody who commits sin, no partiality is shown. By the way, prophets get more punishment than ordinary people. David’s punishment in the case of Bathsheba is a case in point. Here is a verse from the Bible that makes the same point:

    Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly (James 3:1).

    Wishing you good,

    Prasanna.

15. 

    mara natha on 2008-11-27 at 5:10 am

    Dear Br.Abdullah,

    you said ” i am giving some of the verses of Bible, Can you confirm these verses of the Bible are the Word of GOD? If yes Can you read these verses in front of any Christian sisters or mothers.”

    Answer: True God is the one who reveals the secret sin of each n everyone & a false God will hide it n never expose!!. what the Spirit says “you people can do utter n vulgar things secretly even worser than what quoted, but problem when I proclaim it publicly?” Is it a double standard? people can do dirty things, but don’t say? Yes..FYI..true God will speak the truth..but false God hide it n think it is shame? what shame my brother? be open to accept the character of true God not a false God. our families; our mother or sisters doesn’t have any problem or shame to read it, insted leads us to fear true God more n His attributes. So accept the true God who reveals the secret works of all people instead a false teachings that such verses leads to shame for ‘God & His people’ eventhough they are doing such dirty works secretly.

    secondly you said, Where Jesus said He is God?

    Answer: Many such friends are asking questions whether Jesus is saying He is Lord? Or He accepted the title of Lord? or He received Worship? Etc… Yes there are different verses & occasions in Bible delivered by Jesus Himself as below to prove this..

    Jesus himself accepted the title as Lord (John 13:13-14), Jesus agreed & defined as Lord (Luke 19:31, Mathew 21:3, Mark 11:3, John 12:13),& Jesus received worship (Luke 24:50-52)

    hope the above is enough to clear your findings

    with lvoe

16. 

    Muhammad Abdullah on 2008-12-05 at 8:58 am

    Dear Brothers,

    Please visit the following link to know the authenticity of Bible. Bible itself confirms its authenticity, read them and decide for yourself. All the references were taken from the Bible only.

    http://www.2muslims.com/directory/Detailed/224237.shtml

    As a Muslim our duty is show the truth to others. It is up to you people whether to accept the truth or false. On the Day of Judgement God will decide and he also clears the misconceptions, but that will be too late.

    We love Jesus (Peace be upon him) not from your Bible from our Qur’an only. But you people always used bad language against our Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) Whom the Jesus (peace be upon him) foretold in Bible.

    Do sincere research and find out the truth. Don’t add your assumptions to the truth.

    Thanks,

    Abdullah

17. 

    True Muslim on 2008-12-13 at 3:05 pm

    Dear Abdullah, Peace of Lord Jesus Christ Be with You.

    I am glad to read your comments and also i m answering it in response.

    Please visit the following link to know the authenticity of quran.

    http://www.answeringislam.info/Shamoun/shabir-d.htm

    As a Christian my duty is show the truth to you It is up to you whether to accept the truth or false prophet. On the Day of Judgement God (Jehova) will decide and he (Jesus) also clears the misconceptions, but that will be too late.

    We love Jesus (Peace be upon him) not from your Bible from our Qur’an only. But you people always used bad language against our Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) Whom the Jesus (peace be upon him) foretold in Bible.

    Why we dont believe in your religion and prophet.

    The True Prophet Hears From God Through Dreams:

    Num 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

    Many People Actually Prefer False Prophets (Muslims)

    Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:(Muslim, islamic fundamentalist, jehadis )

    Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

    The Fate Of False Prophets And Those Who Follow Them:(Muslim)

    Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

    Jer 14:15 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed. (fate of Mohammad R.I.P.)

    Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

    Dear Brother Abdullah please read all the early comment and articles on this site. Do sincere research and find out the truth. Don’t add your assumptions to the truth.

    For futher reading check

    Is Muhammad Foretold in the Bible?

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/muhammad.html

    I believe soon you will accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour just the way i did.

18. 

    Prasanna on 2008-12-20 at 7:59 pm

    Dear Adbullah,

    Welcome back to the discussion. Good to hear from you after a long time.

    (1) Your wrote, “As a Muslim our duty is show the truth to other”

    It is hilarious to hear these words from you. I know there are some Muslims who are trying to be good and also trying to speak ‘truth’. But you?! You lied about the hadiths that clearly talk about the corruption of the Quran. You lied about the Arabic Bible that doesn’t use the word Allah for Jehovah. You lied about the word ‘Allah’ which Muhammad took from pagan Arabs and pre-Islamic Christians. You lied about the Quranic heaven that is conceived to serve the lust of the perverted. By lying to yourself, to other Muslims and even to unsuspected Christians you only prove to us the strong connection that exists between you and the father of lies! Just because you have come back to the discussion after a long time, readers won’t forget your failure to answer the questions raised against your baseless beliefs. Like many Muslim apologists you are also offering a box of lies in the name of truth. We think such lies and misinformation are only appealing to Muslims not to Christians. By the way read the following verses you love the truth:

    “Guide us to the Straight Way” (Quran: Al Fatiha 1:6); “Jesus said, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life no one comes to the Father, but through me.’” (Bible: John 14:6).

    (2) You also wrote, “We love Jesus not from your Bible from our Quran only”

    There is a big problem in your statement. God’s word says there are people who preach a different Jesus than the one presented in the Bible. They are deluded, false and in fact they are from the devil (2Corinthians 11:4,13-15). Since such people perverted the truth of God, they became the accursed. We hear the name Jesus from Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Ahmadias, Bahais and even from Muslims. So what? Each of these misguided groups believes and presents a different Jesus. That’s what God’s word warned the followers of the truth centuries earlier, even before Islam was born, about these happenings. Do you expect Christian to believe in these lies of the devil that are being propagated through these groups, even after being warned by the true God?

    (3) Finally, you wrote with great enthusiasm, “prophet Muhammad whom the Jesus foretold in Bible.”

    What an irony! After all, you may be right in stating that. I want to give credit to you for this discovery, friend. It seems that the true Jesus of the Bible did foretell of someone who would arise as a prophet and that he would come from a place like Arabia (Mathew 24:24-26). Isn’t it amazing to see how strikingly Jesus’ prophecy fulfilled in the case of Muhammad. This happened because Jesus is true prophet. Think about it, instead of becoming enraged, go to God and ask for the truth. He will definitely let you know the truth. “If you know the truth, the truth shall set you free.” Many did that and as a result of that got blessings. Personally I met many. Asghar Ali is just one among thousands of such people. I met him some time ago and he told me this story. You can read about his journey to truth on this website. Perhaps you might get some enlightenment

    May the truth be revealed to you and every Muslims friend who loves and seeks the truth.

    Abdullah, don’t resist the truth. It will be too late, if you keep on living in lies and wait for the final day. God is patiently waiting for your salvation, because he loves you.

    Peace,

    Prasanna.

19. 

    Shaji on 2008-12-21 at 2:55 am

    Dear Mr. (self claimed) True Muslim,

    May ALLAH guide you to the right path.

    I am unable to open answeringislam or answeringchristianity sites as it is blocked in UAE.

    You are completely misquoting the texts. From the verse Num 12:6, where the quotation of “False Prophet” comes…….this is your interpretation. Be true with words.

    You did the same with Isa 30:9,10 also. Your allegation Muslims as rebellious people, then what about Crusaders…..??, “were they not rebellious in killing Muslims”. My dear, if you speak about present day situation, you will not reach anywhere. What’s going on now is thoroughly politically motivated, nothing it has to do with religious ideology. People misuse the power and put the blame on religion. At least this much you must accept, otherwise discussion goes hay way.

    Also in the next sentence, it speaks about False Prophets and it’s your claim that Prophet Muhammad was a false prophet without proving it. You quote from Bible and give your interpretation, how it is valid unless you prove……….??

    Giving links to distorted truths never serve your purpose.

    Read and learn Holy Qur’aan, not from Christian apologetics but from Holy Qur’aan itself.

    I hope you would revert to the true religion, ISLAM

20. 

    Prasanna on 2008-12-22 at 2:46 am

    Dear friend Shaji,

    In your response to the ‘True Muslim’ you mentioned the following things…

    (1) Crusaders: In fact, you asked, “what about crusaders…..?’

    If you do some honest search of the past history connected to Muslims and Christians, you will soon realize, if you are honest, that crusades did not happen in isolation of Muslim aggression. History reveals that prior to crusades Muslim ‘Jihadists’ had pillaged and shed blood of the Pagan nations, Christian nations, Zoroastrian nations, Hindu nations etc. Crusades are a perverted reaction of the false Christians to the equally perverted actions of the true Muslim Jihadists. The difference between Crusaders and Jihadists is this while Crusaders completely failed to emulate the Lord of Christianity Jesus Christ in his teachings and lifestyle, Jihadists excelled in emulating the prophet of Islam Muhammad in his teachings and lifestyle. If you are interested I can provide you the references that reveal these truths.

    (2) Quran: You also advised others to read the Quran.

    Many Muslims friends of mine challenged me to do this. I did it. I read the Quran in English. (Some Muslims argue foolishly that Quran cannot be translated into other languages. This only proves our contention that Quran is not God’s word and that’s why it is so limited to one single language, namely, Arabic.) Apart from the fact that the Quran is devoid of context, chronology and meaningful transition, what liberating and life-giving truth it offers is anybody’s guess. After reading the Quran I met some of my Muslim friends who challenged me to read it and gave them some simple questions. They could not give answers to those questions. Let me ask you those questions to see whether you have answers to them:

    If the Quran is truly God’s word

    a) What does it reveal which was not revealed before?

    b) What is its authenticity?

    c) What did you personally receive from it with regard to your eternal destination?

    Assuming you’ve got some answers, may I request you to be specific and concise in your reply. I hope that will become beneficial to all the readers of this discussion.

    Love and peace,

    Prasanna.

    • 

      DR.BABU on 2014-06-23 at 7:25 am

      Dear Prasanna
      Read the BIble with an open mind.Just follow what Jesus advised to do ( go through red letter bible ) so that you can easily identify.
      You may have 63 or 71 books .Where are the other books?What was its contents? Search from the history.
      Bible says that no one can change the bible words.Then why it was changed ?
      SEEK YOU THE TRUTH,THE SHALL SET YOU FREE
      Dr.Babu

21. 

    Shaji on 2008-12-23 at 5:13 am

    Dear friend Prasanna,

    1. I doubt this will go as political discussion. You say Crusades done by false Christians, and the same you when describe about Muslim occupation, you call them “Jehadists”. First you tell me what is the meaning of “Jihad”?. And you said Jihadists strived to establish the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon Him). Well if that is the case, tell me which teaching of Prophet (Peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon Him) they enforced?. Then I will discuss with you. Remember; don’t give the links to websites when you explain. Please mention in brief here.

    2. I surprise you quote some Muslim arguments here. You create a statement your own and answering self. Also you don’t have to mention your experiences with your Muslim friends. I can also create arbitrary stories and express self satisfaction. You must come to the point with proof. Translations have its own limit and it depends on the knowledge and understandings of the translators, the original language which Qur’aan revealed only Muslims consider authentic.

    Now replying to your queries.

    a) Qur’aan mainly affirms monotheism which originally taught by all the Prophets. Then question may arise what is the need of Qur’aan?.

    Qur’aan says in 3:64, Say: “O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but ALLAH, that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than ALLAH.” If then they turn back, say ye: “Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to ALLAH’s Will).

    Qur’aan says that the differences which exist between various religions are not the responsibility of the prophets, but of the followers of these prophets who forgot part of what they had been taught, and furthermore, misinterpreted and changed the scriptures. The Qur’aan cannot therefore be seen as a scripture which competes with the teachings of Moses, Jesus (Peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon them) and the other prophets. On the contrary, it confirms, completes and perfects the messages that they brought to their people.

    b) The Holy Qur’aan repeatedly makes clear that it is Divine. “(This is) the revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the Worlds.” (32:2).

    “Verily this is a Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds” (26:192).

    “(It is a Revelation) sent down by (Him), the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful” (36:5).

    Still there are many points to be mentioned about its authenticity. Then it will be too long. To clear your misconception, ask me point by point whom you find it’s not authentic. Please mention one point at a time, so that I can try to clear it and go to the next.

    c) It is to mankind that the Qur’aan speaks. It is to salvation that the Qur’aan beckons. It convinces him of the existence of the Lord Creator by turning his attention to the varied and incredible phenomena of nature. It speaks to him of the impermanence of the life of this world and of the utter meaninglessness of wasting an entire lifetime in pursuit of the comforts herein. It makes clear to him the path which must be followed in order that he be of that blessed group which becomes worthy of the entry into Paradise as of the safety from the confines of Hell.

    It invites his attention to the history of those who purchased the punishment of Hell in exchange for the comforts of this world. It tells him of those who were granted the entry into Paradise for having led a life of purity.

    Briefly put, the Qur’aan prepares man for attaining salvation both in this world and the next through obedience to the Divine commandments. This is what I understood from Qur’aan and its language.

    More if I try to concise, the message could not be delivered to the extent I assume. Hope the readers will understand.

    May ALLAH helps us to understand the truth and follow it.

    Shaji

22. 

    Prasanna on 2008-12-24 at 1:07 am

    Dear friend Shaji,

    It’s a pleasure to receive your reply so fast, and indeed your willingness to debate about some of the most important issues related to Islam is commendable. I hope you will continue to discuss these issues in a spirit of maturity, integrity and respect.

    In the beginning you expressed your concern that this would become a political discussion. Let me assure you that it won’t unless you force it upon me. Let us not grow bitter looking to the past. Instead, we can use the past to clarify the truth that concerns both of us. Centuries ago people used to take pride in wars and conquests. In wars all sides crossed the lines of justice. I personally think that there is little sense in taking sides of different groups in those settings.

    (1 ) You asked, “first you tell me what is the meaning of “Jihad”?

    My definition of ‘Jihad’ is based on the dominant meaning and usage of the word ‘Jihad’ in Quranic verses as well as Bukhari’s hadiths. Jihad is primarily a command to join fighting the non-Muslims in order to expand the Muslim rule on others. It offers material benefits in this world for those who become victorious, and assures carnal pleasures in heaven if dies while fighting. When I used the word ‘Jihadists’ it was in the sense that Muslims who committed themselves to spread the rule of Islam by means of fighting. Within a century of Muhammad’s death Islam spread from Spain to Afghanistan because of the Jihadists.

    Now, Jihadists followed Muhammad in his teachings: fight for Allah’s cause, subdue the non-Muslims etc. They also followed him in his lifestyle: murdering the unsuspected, raiding the caravans, conquering the other tribes with dishonest tactics, killing those who surrendered etc.

    (2) You noted that translations have their own limits. I fully agree with that. But what I don’t agree is that God’s word or his message is limited to one language. No human language can restrict/limit God’s message and revelation. God is the creator of all people and all languages. His message is also for all and should be expressed in all languages. In other words, almighty God’s message transcends all languages. That is precisely why Christians consider the Bible in any language as God’s word. By the way, the Bible is God’s word not because it is dictated by God, but because it is inspired by God. If someone says that God’s word is limited to a particular language, for us it means that God is limited in some sense. Since God is not limited by anything, including languages, the statement that God’s word is limited to one single language is a great lie and blasphemy against God’s power.

    (3) You stated that the Quran affirms monotheism.

    Yes, in its present form that is true. Then you went on to say that the Quran has come because the followers of the previous prophets have changed the scripture. In fact, you wrote that “they forgot, misinterpreted and changed the scripture”. I don’t want to waste our time arguing about what they forgot and misinterpreted. However, I am very much interested to know what they changed according to you. Kindly provide the changed portions along with some meaningful and substantial information about who, when, why it was done. As a man of integrity you should be able to do that. I hope these accusations against God’s word are not just the figments of imagination provided by the devil.

    In addition, you wrote about the Quran, “On the contrary, it confirms, completes and perfects the messages that they brought to their people.”

    I can assume that the Quran confirms the oneness of God in the previous books. But I need some information about your other assumptions. Therefore, kindly explain briefly what it completes and perfects that is lacking in the previous revelations. Be specific.

    (4) Regarding the authenticity of the Quran you quoted what the Quran claims about itself.

    This is purely circular argument. For instance, the sacred book of Bahais is “Kitab-ul-Akdas” seems to say the same thing about itself. We Christians don’t accept it as God’s word just because it claims so. The same principle applies to the Quran. In our case, the authenticity of the final revelation to mankind, the New Testament (Injeel), is established in the previous scriptures i.e. Tora (Tavrat) and Psalms (Zabur). Those two books are revealed to and kept by Jews. There was enmity between Jews and Christians for long periods time in the past, and could be so even now in some places. Yet, we can never ever say or even dare to say that Jews changed the scriptures (Tora and Psalms) and that’s why New Testament came. The point is, God’s word remains as God’s word. If God cannot protect his word from corruption then it implies that God is not almighty and also it leaves mankind in hopeless state. Think about these points, please.

    (5) Finally, you wrote, “It is to mankind that the Quran speaks. It is to salvation that the Quran beckons.”…..

    Well, what I asked you is to let me know what the Quran provided ‘you’ with regard to your eternal destination. I am wondering whether you answered the way you did because you didn’t get any benefit from the Quran personally regarding your eternal destination or because you did not understand my question in the first place. I hope my second assumption is the case here. So, kindly try to explain to us about the concrete benefits you yourself have gotten from the Quran regarding the life after death. That way even readers can get some insights into what the Quran can offer to individuals at personal level.

    Blessing,

    Prasanna.

23. 

    Shaji on 2008-12-25 at 2:31 am

    Dear friend Prasanna,

    I told here earlier, my reply depends on my work schedule. Thanks for your comments about my willingness. In fact, I thank ALLAH for giving me the spirit to write to you.

    Why I raised suspicion to divert discussion to politics, one cannot get any authenticity for individual activities in history except from those confirmed by the scriptures. Histories rewritten and manipulated to self interests. Then there will be no credibility in the evidences provide. As you too agree there is little sense in doing so, we both better to avoid that much we can.

    1) You are completely mistaken by the word, Jihad. The Arabic word “jihad” means struggling or striving and applies to any effort exerted by anyone. In this sense, a student struggles and strives to get an education and pass course work; an employee strives to fulfill his/her job and maintain good relations with his/her employer; etc all come under Jihad. In the West, “jihad” is generally translated as “holy war,” a usage the media has popularized. According to Islamic teachings, it is unholy to instigate or start war; however, some wars are inevitable and justifiable. For Muslims the term Jihad is applied to all forms of striving and has developed some special meanings over time. In conclusion, jihad in Islam is striving in the way of Allah by pen, tongue, hand, media and, if inevitable, with arms. However, jihad in Islam does not include striving for individual or national power, dominance, glory, wealth, prestige or pride.

    Hope this word is very clear to you now.

    See what Qur’aan says about your allegation.

    “Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: Thus doth he command you, that ye may learn wisdom”. (Quran 6:15)

    Now tell me a single incident from Prophet Muhammad’s (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon Him) life where he did the atrocities you mentioned. Surprisingly you didn’t quote a single incident while making all the allegations falsely spread by the christian apologetics. By mentioning stretch of Islam from Afghan to Spain, you completely ignore the colonialization by Westerners in the recent past. You would say that was not for Christianity. But can you genuinely admit, Christianity hadn’t get any benefit from this colonialization of the whole world?.

    You must understand that actions not in accordance with Qur’aanic teachings have no justification whoever does or did. Prophet Muhammad is the perfect exemplary for Qur’aanic way of life. Now ask me from his life rather than giving usual allegations.

    2) You agree translations have limit. The original verses of Qur’aan revealed in Arabic. Its translations are available in many languages. But they are translations; it has limitations as you too agreed. This doesn’t mean God likes only Arabic language. By name, only four revelations of God are mentioned in the Qur’aan i.e. Torah, Zaboor, Injeel and the Qur’aan.

    Torah is the revelation which was given to Moses (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon Him)

    Zaboor is the revelation which was given to David (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon Him)

    Injeel is the revelation which was given to Jesus (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon Him)

    and Qur’an is the last and final revelation which was given to the last and final Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon Him).

    Your statement, “By the way, the Bible is God’s word not because it is dictated by God, but because it is inspired by God” – then why The Bible comprises 24 books for Jews, 66 for Protestants, 73 for Catholics, and 78 for most Orthodox Christians. If it is inspired by God, why christians are not unanimous in accepting the books of Bible?.

    Your statement, God’s word is limited to a particular language, for us it means that God is limited in some sense. – Who said, did I say?. You again go same pattern as before, replying not for my comments…… I said, regarding Qur’aan its original revelation in Arabic that is what authentic. Similarly if Torah still remain as it is, in the original language it revealed, then that is what most authentic. I don’t understand why you go to the extent that I haven’t meant.

    Your statement, Since God is not limited by anything, including languages; the statement that God’s word is limited to one single language is a great lie and blasphemy against God’s power. – Again commenting not for what I said…..

    3) Thanks to agree Qur’aan to affirm monotheism in its present form. Regarding my comment of changing scriptures of previous prophets, In 2:79, Qur’aan says, “Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:”This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby”.

    I will quote one example for Bible contradiction.

    The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time? (a) Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8). (b) Three hundred (1 Chronicles 11:11).

    These contradiction happens when writing Book with their own hands as Qur’aan said. Your explanation is expected. If you are able to clear this, I will quote the next.

    Then you asked, what it (Qur’aan) completes and perfects that is lacking in the previous revelations. See what Qur’aan in 2:213 says about the difference occurred, “Mankind were one community, and ALLAH sent prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth, that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed. And only those unto whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it, after clear proofs had come unto them, through hatred one of another. And ALLAH by His Will guided those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. ALLAH guideth whom He will unto a straight path”.

    I told you previous revelations were corrupted by the followers and ended up in contradictions, I already gave one example. If you are able to clear that, I will quote the next.

    4) I repeat, any scripture its authenticity currently must be evaluated by its principles. As far as my knowledge, no other divine book claims it is from GOD. You said about Kitab-ul-Akdas said similar word. Kindly mention here from that book with quotations.

    Your statement, Yet, we can never ever say or even dare to say that Jews changed the scriptures (Tora and Psalms) and that’s why New Testament came. – Can you say then Jews use the same Old testament as Christians and there were no additions or variations….??. Then I will answer to you.

    God can protect His word. That is what He did with the last and final revelation, which is Qur’aan.

    5) Qur’aan its 1/3rd speaks about hereafter and you say Qur’aan not mention about eternal destination. I will quote one verse just for your knowledge.

    Qur’aan in 4:124 says, If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female – and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them

    I really surprised about your claim that “you have read Qur’aan”

    May ALLAH helps us to understand the truth and follow it.

    Shaji

24. 

    Prasanna on 2008-12-27 at 12:34 am

    Dear Shaji,

    Thanks for taking time to respond to my questions and comments. I’m sure we as well as the other readers of this discussion will get some benefit out of what we have been discussing here. I thank the Lord God for the common ground, however small it may be, that we both share in the religious realm. The common ground includes belief in one God, God’s scripture, God’s prophets, God’s angels and the Day of Judgment. I hope you agree with me in these. In addition to this common ground, since the God whom I know, worship and serve has created you as my fellow human being I would like to tell you that I sincerely respect you, value you and love you. This is one of the things I’ve learnt from God’s true word, the Injeel. With this let me continue on our discussion…

    (1) You declared: “You are completely mistaken by the word, Jihad.” You also added: “However, jihad in Islam does not include striving for individual or national power, dominance, glory, wealth, prestige or pride.”

    Here are some quotations from the Quran which cast doubt on your declaration that I am ‘completely mistaken’ by the word, Jihad. As a matter of fact, although the root meaning of the word Jihad is striving, its usage in the Quranic contexts clearly show striving with the sword as well. As I mentioned the dominant usage of this word is in the context of fighting or war. Following are some of the examples:

    “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause’ (9:88)

    “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.” (9:5)

    “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.” (9:112)

    “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.” (9:29)

    “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).” (8:39)

    “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.” (9:14)

    “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.” (8:65)

    “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.” (9:123)

    “Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: ‘You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture.” (48:16)

    “Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has distinguished with a special reward.” (4:95)

    (2) Regarding changing previous prophets’ scripture: You quoted 2:79. If this verse is truly from Allah, then, here Allah mentioned only “the book” as written by some people. Allah did not use the words Taurat, Zabur and Injeel in this verse. But you want to change Allah’s word “the book” to either Taurat or Zabur or Injeel or all of them, if I understood you correctly. Think twice. Remember these verses in the Quran 6:34, 115; 10:64; 15:9 which say that the words of Allah cannot be changed. I hope you don’t assume exception to this rule.

    In essence, you failed to quote even a single verse from your own Quran that refers to at least one of the three books (Taurat, Zabur and Injeel) as changed. I will wait patiently until you find one and give it to me so that I can discuss about that in detail.

    (3) a) You quoted two verses from the Old Testament:

    “These are the names of the mighty men whom David had: Josheb-basshebeth a Tahchemonite, chief of the captains, he was called Adino the Eznite, because of eight hundred slain by him at one time.” (2 Samuel 23:8);

    “And these constutiute the list of the mighty men whom David had: Jashobeam, the son of a Hachmonite, the chief of the thirty; he lifted up his spear against three hundred whom he killed at one time.” (1 Chronicles 11:11)

    Because you saw two different numbers (800 and 300) in these two verses concerning one person you jumped to the conclusion that it is a contradiction. My friend, I can tell you that you made a hasty conclusion here. It is quite possible that in these two verses two different authors (prophets) may have mentioned about the same person involving in two different incidents. In the first verse the emphasis is on how Josheb gained the title ‘Adino the Eznite.’ In the second verse the emphasis is on the spear of Josheb with which he managed to kill three hundred. One book chose to highlight one incident in the life of a man and the other book chose to highlight another incident in the life of the same person. What problem you have with that?

    b) Since you assumed two different numbers used by two different prophets in the Bible as contradiction and therefore you imply that the Bible is no more God’s word or it is now a ‘changed’ God’s word. If we apply the same logic to the Quran which is written by one ‘prophet’ with two numbers regarding the number of angles who come to gather the souls at death (one angel 32:11; and more than one angel 47:27) you should say the same thing that the Quran is also changed because it has a ‘contradiction.’ Personally, I wouldn’t use this approach to disqualify the Quran. As far as the numbers in the Bible are concerned in some case the rounding of numbers or partial recounting is employed. Such methods of writing numbers in the Bible give rise to apparent contradictions but not real contradictions.

    Let me explain few things for you here, lest we waste our time in wrong approaches to ancient texts. Textual criticism of ancient books is not a simple feat. If the ancient books claim divine origin then the task is much more complex than we can handle in a discussion like this. Simply by finding different sets of numbers in an ancient religious book we cannot discard it as unreliable and corrupt, that would be presumptuous on our part. Without proper principles of textual criticism, if we approach either the Bible or the Quran we may very well end up finding ‘apparent contradictions’ in each of them. But that does not prove anything, except our ignorance, as far as their authenticity is concerned. Therefore, let me suggest you something here. If you are interested in discussing the authenticity of the Bible and the Quran let us do that systematically. First, you present why you think the Quran is divine in its origin including its compilation, transmission and preservation. At the same time I will present why I think the Bible is divine in its origin including its compilation, transmission and preservation. We both can simultaneously examine and raise questions of each other’s presentation while presenting the case for the books we believe in. I think that will help us do some meaningful and profitable discussion for others too. What do you think? Otherwise you quote enough ‘apparent contradictions’ in the Bible to reject it and I quote enough ‘apparent contradictions’ in the Quran to reject it, and that gets us nowhere.

    (4) Quoting my statement you wrote this: “Why The Bible comprises 24 books for Jews, 66 for Protestants, 73 for Catholics, and 78 for most Orthodox Christians. If it is inspired by God, why christians are not unanimous in accepting the books of Bible”

    I can’t speak for the Jews, Catholics and Orthodox Christians. I am a humble follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. I would explain about the 66 parts of the Bible just the way you would explain why the Quran has 114 Suras. I can assure you that I will give you the reasons why there 66 parts in the Bible if you can explain to me why there 114 suras in the Quran. But I don’t understand in what way this is going to prove anything.

    (5) First you said this:

    Taurat is from Allah

    Zabur is from Allah

    Injeel is from Allah

    Quran is from Allah

    Then you said this:

    Taurat is changed (by this you implied that Allah could not protect it)

    Zabur is changed (by this you implied that Allah could not protect it)

    Injeel is changed (by this you implied that Allah could not protect it)

    Quran is not changed because Allah is able to protect it.

    I am wondering how in the world Allah who could not protect three of his books, as you proved by implication, can actually protect just one, namely, the fourth book. Please explain this to me in a way that it makes sense to you too.

    (6) a) My friend, you wrote: “you say Qur’aan not mention about eternal destination.” Did I really say that? I don’t want to declare that you lied in accusing me of this. I assume that you might have misunderstood my question. That’s all. Never mind.

    b) You quoted the following Quranic verse to the statement I never said nor meant:

    Qur’aan in 4:124 says, If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female – and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them

    But your own so-called authentic hadiths that explain the Quran say some thing different in this regard:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “The good deeds of any person will not make him enter Paradise.” (i.e., None can enter Paradise through his good deeds.) They (the Prophet’s companions) said, “Not even you, O Allah’s Apostle?” He said, “Not even myself, unless Allah bestows His favor and mercy on me.” So be moderate in your religious deeds and do the deeds that are within your ability: and none of you should wish for death, for if he is a good doer, he may increase his good deeds, and if he is an evil doer, he may repent to Allah.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 70, Number 577)

    Narrated Aisha:

    The Prophet said, “Do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately, and receive good news because one’s good deeds will NOT make him enter Paradise.” They asked, “Even you, O Allah’s Apostle?” He said, “Even I, unless and until Allah bestows His pardon and Mercy on me.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 474)

    c) Let me try to ask that question, may be, in a different way. I understand that Quran does say about the heaven and hell. It also offers lot of blessings and promises to its followers in general in this life and in the life after. Now, you believe and consider that you are a Muslim and the follower of the Quran. Right? Assuming that you are a Muslim, I would like to ask you, Which of the benefits that the Quran offers to its followers you are actually experiencing right now? Give me some examples of that kind from your own life. I hope at least this time you understand my request.

    (7) I have chosen not to include the references for the ‘examples’ of Muhammad as you demanded. Looking to the length of this reply and the scope of our discussion I have decided not to do that for the time being. Trust that this will not disappoint you. I think we will do well if we can focus on fewer issues than too many in our present discussion.

    Seeking the blessing of the One true God upon you,

    Prasanna.

25. 

    syed kareem on 2008-12-30 at 1:09 am

    may peace b with you. i have seen ur replies 2 v muslim brothers and i want 2 clear cut you about the previous revealations. allah is the only who have sent the prophets and revelations b4 but that revealations and that prophets were only ment for their people and their time so allah did not want 2 safe it from corruption but allah says in quran that v have revealed this book and v will safe guard it as the quran was the last and final revelation sent 2 last and final messenger mohammed{saw} it will safeguarded.and our prophet was sent 4 whole of humanity same as the quran is not only revealed 2 the muslims but is also revealed for the whole of humanity. hope 2 c ur reply soon

26. 

    Shaji on 2008-12-31 at 5:34 am

    Dear Prasanna,

    I am busy with my office shiftings and last few days were holidays in UAE. Next 3 days are again holidays in UAE. Sorry for the delay caused.

    Without wasting time for introduction, straight away I would go to the topic.

    1) You got the word Jihad which basically means striving. Before coming to your queries, read what Qur’aan says about biggest Jihad. Qur’aan 25:52 says, “O Prophet, do not yield to the disbelievers, but wage a Jihad against them with this Qur’aan”. So the biggest Jihad Qur’aan describes is Jihad with Qur’aan.

    Qur’aan is not sword but its powerful teachings change the minds of people. Western missionaries misrepresented this word in the minds of people by their powerful weapon these days, which is the media. Unfortunately you also became a victim of their false propaganda.

    Regarding quotations you mentioned that Qur’aan use Jihad to fight or war, you must first understand context of each verse when it revealed. Without knowing that, if you quote verses out of context, you will understand Qur’aan wrongly and this is how most christian apologists misinterpret Qur’aan. As usual, few selected verses from the Qur’an are often misquoted to perpetuate the myth that Islam promotes violence, and exhorts its followers to kill those outside the pale of Islam.

    Explanation of Qur’aan Chapter 9, Verse 88 – You should know the background of this Chapter because christian missionaries very often malign verses in this Chapter (At-Tauba) and previous chapter (Al –Anfaal) and accuse Islam spread by sword.

    Background – After the Treaty of Hudaibiyah Prophet sent missions to several parts of Arabia to convince people about the truth of Islam. One such mission visited the clans which lived in the northern areas adjacent to Syria. The majority of these people were Christians, who were under the influence of the Roman Empire. Contrary to all the principles of the commonly accepted international law, they killed fifteen members of the delegation near a place known as Zat-u-Talah (or Zat-i-Itlah). Only Ka’ab bin Umair Ghifari, the head of the delegation, succeeded in escaping and reporting the sad incident. Besides this, Shurahbll bin Amr, the Christian governor of Busra, who was directly under the Roman Caesar, had also put to death Haritli bin Umair, the ambassador of the Holy Prophet, who had been sent to him on a similar minion.

    These events convinced the Holy Prophet that a strong action should be taken in order to make the territory adjacent to the Roman Empire safe and secure for the Muslims. Accordingly, in the month of Jamadi-ul-Ula A. H. 8, he sent an army of three thousand towards the Syrian border. When this army reached near Ma’an, the Muslims learned that Shurahbil was marching with an army of one hundred thousand to fight-with them and that the Caesar, who himself was at Hims, had sent another army consisting of one hundred thousand soldiers under his brother Theodore. But in spite of such fearful news, the brave small band of the Muslims marched on fearlessly and encountered the big army of Shurahbil at M’utah. And the result of the encounter in which the Muslims were fighting against fearful odds (the ratio of the two armies was 1:33), as very favorable, for the enemy utterly failed to defeat them. This proved very helpful for the propagation of Islam. As a result, those Arabs who were living in a state of semi independence in Syria and near Syria and the clans of Najd near Iraq, who were under the influence of the Iranian Empire, turned towards Islam and embraced it in thousands. For example, the people of Bani Sulaim (whose chief was Abbas bin Mirdas Sulaimi), Ashja’a, Ghatafan, Zubyan, Fazarah, etc., came into the fold of Islam at the same time. Above all, Farvah bin ‘Amral Juzami, who was the commander of the Arab armies of the Roman Empire, embraced Islam during that time, and underwent the trial of his Faith in a way that filled the whole territory with wonder. When the Caesar came to know that Farvah had embraced Islam, he ordered that he should be arrested and brought to his court. Then the Caesar said to him, “You will have to choose one of the two things. Either give up your Islam and win your liberty and your former rank, or remain a Muslim and face death.” He calmly chose Islam and sacrificed his life in the way of the Truth.

    No wonder that such events as these made the Caesar realize the nature of the danger that was threatening his Empire from Arabia. Accordingly, in 9 A.H. he began to make military preparations to avenge the insult he had suffered at M’utah. The Ghassanid and other Arab chiefs also began to muster armies under him. When the Holy Prophet, who always kept himself well-informed even of the minutest things that could affect the Islamic Movement favorably or adversely, came to know of these preparations, he at once under- stood their meaning. He knew that the show of the slightest weakness would result in the utter failure of the Movement which was facing three great dangers at that time. The Hypocrites of Al Madinah, who were always on the look-out for such an opportunity, might make full use of this to do the greatest possible harm to it. For they had already made preparations for this and had, through a monk called Abu Amir, sent secret messages of their evil designs to the Christian king of Ghassan and the Caesar himself. Besides this, they had also built a mosque near Al-Madinah for holding secret meetings for this purpose. The third danger was of an attack by the Caesar himself, who had already defeated Iran, the other great power of that period, and filled with awe the adjacent territories.

    It is obvious that if all these three elements had been given an opportunity of taking a concerted action against the Muslims. That is why in this case the Holy Prophet made an open declaration for making preparations for the Campaign against the Roman Empire, which was one of the two greatest empires of the world of that period. The declaration was made though all the apparent circumstances were against such a decision: for there was famine in the country and the long awaited crops were about to ripen: the burning heat of the scorching summer season of Arabia was at, its height and there was not enough money for preparations in general, and for equipment and conveyance in particular. But in spite of these handicaps, when the Messenger of Allah realized the urgency of the occasion, he took this step which was to decide whether the Mission of the Truth was going to survive or perish. The very fact that he made an open declaration for making preparations for such a campaign to Syria against the Roman Empire showed how important it was, for this was contrary to his previous practice. Usually he took every precaution not to reveal before and the direction to which he was going nor the name of the enemy whom he was going to attack; nay, he did not move out of Al-Madinah even in the direction of the campaign.

    All the parties in Arabia fully realized the grave consequences of this critical decision. The remnants of the lovers of the old order of ‘ignorance’ were anxiously waiting for the result of the Campaign, for they had pinned all their hopes on the defeat of Islam by the Romans. The ‘hypocrites’ also considered it to be their last chance of crushing the power of Islam by internal rebellion, if the Muslims suffered a defeat in Syria. They had, therefore, made full use of the Mosque built by them for hatching plots and had employed all their devices to render the Campaign a failure.

    That is why these lovers of Islam began to make enthusiastic preparations for the Campaign. Everyone of them tried to surpass the other in making contributions for the provision of equipment for it. Hadrat Uthman and Hadrat Abdur Rehman bin Auf presented large sums of money for this purpose. Hadrat Umar contributed half of the earnings of his life and Hadrat Abu Bakr the entire earnings of his life. The indigent Companions did not lag behind and presented whatever they could earn by the sweat of their labor and the women parted with their ornaments. Thousands of volunteers, who were filled with the desire of sacrificing their lives for Islam, came to the Holy Prophet and requested that arrangements for weapons and conveyance be made for them so that they should join the expedition. Those who could not be provided with these shed tears of sorrow; the scene was so pathetic that it made the Holy Prophet sad because of his inability to arm them. In short, the occasion became the touchstone for discriminating a true believer from a hypocrite. For, to lag behind in the Campaign meant that the very relationship of a person to Islam was doubtful. Accordingly, whenever a person lagged behind during the journey to Tabuk, the Holy Prophet, on being informed, would spontaneously say, “Leave him alone. If there be any good in him, Allah will again join him with you, and if there be no good in him, then thank Allah that He relieved you of his evil company”.

    In short, the Holy Prophet marched out towards Syria in Rajab A. H. 9, with thirty thousand fighters for the cause of Islam. The conditions in which the expedition was undertaken may be judged from the fact that the number of camels with them was so small that many of them were obliged to walk on foot and to wait for their turns for several had to ride at a time on each camel. To add to this, there was the burning heat of the desert and the acute shortage of water. But they were richly rewarded for their firm resolve and sincere adherence to the cause and for their perseverance in the face of those great difficulties and obstacles.

    When they arrived at Tabuk, they learned that the Caesar and his allies had withdrawn their troops from the frontier and there was no enemy to fight with. Thus they won a moral victory that increased their prestige manifold and, that too, without shedding a drop of blood.

    In this connection, it is pertinent to point out that the general impression given by the historians of the campaigns of the Holy Prophet about the Campaign of Tabuk is not correct. They relate the event in a way as if the news of the mustering of the Roman armies near the Arabian frontier was itself false. The fact is that the Caesar had begun to muster his armies, but the Holy Prophet forestalled him and arrived on the scene before he could make full preparations for the invasion. Therefore, believing that “discretion is the better part of valor,” he withdrew his armies from the frontier. For he had not forgotten that the three thousand fighters for the cause of Islam had rendered helpless his army one hundred thousand strong at M’utah. He could not, therefore, even with an army of two hundred thousand, dare to fight against an army of thirty thousand, and that, too, under the leadership of the Holy Prophet himself. Above all, this moral victory of Tabuk afforded a golden opportunity to the Muslims to strengthen their hold on Arabia.

    From versus 73-90 in this Chapter deals with the problems of hypocrites and lays down rules and regulations governing the treatment that should be meted out to them and points out their distinctive marks from true Muslims.

    It is worth stressing that any Army General to boost up the standard of his men asks to prepare for the fight with all their efforts. How such a preparation violates the international law….??. Basically it was in the context that the enemy had serious plan to attack Muslims and the enemy already violated the international law by killing 15 men from mission in the beginning.

    Now see some Bible quotations, Mathew 10:34-36, “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household”.

    And in Luke 22:35-38, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.”

    Now you give the context of above 2 verses.

    All your allegations from the same Chapter, verses 9:5, 14, 29, 112, 123

    I hope you remember the context of this Chapter I mentioned above.

    For eg., Qur’aan 9:5, “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

    Now for your understanding, I will quote a situation to convince you when words use out of context. We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: “Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them”. Today if I say that the American President said, “Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them” without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war. Same is the situation above also. If a command expressed in the context of war singles out and apply in the normal situation, result would be the same.

    Next from Chapter 8, Verse 39

    So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

    You must understand Qur’aan with the help of supporting Hadith, the explanation from the Prophet. This verse is better explained in Sahih Al-Bukhari Kitab At Tafsir, for Chapters Al Baqarah and Al-Anfal.

    Abdullah ibn Umar explains “the command of the Quran to fight for the fitna is not what you hold to be Fitna. Fitna meant religious persecution and we have already fought and put an end to this fitna (Qad fa’alna). Therefore now after the removal of this obstacle we have to engage ourselves in peaceful Dawah work rather than initiating hostilities and creating new fitna once again, which is akin to creating new obstacles for peaceful Islamic dawah.

    In actual fact, the mission of all the Prophets right from Adam to Christ was one and the same-of establishing the ideology of monotheism in the world, making man to worship one God alone. As we know there came a large number of Prophets in ancient time but the message of monotheism remained at the initial stage, it could not culminate into the stage of revolution. The reason being that in ancient time, system of monarchy was established throughout the world. These kings, in order to secure their political interest, adopted the course called religious persecution. These kings suppressed all religious movements, which was different from the state religion. They would nip all such attempts in the bud. Since these kings saw religion as a matter of affirming one’s loyalty to the state. If a person adhered to a religion other than the

    state religion, he was regarded as a rebel.

    You yourself translated Fitnah to disbelief and referring to Non-Muslims. This actually means religious persecution done by the vested interests.

    Next is Chapter 8 Verse 65, “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”

    This verse was revealed at the time (A.H. 2) the morale of the Muslims had not attained perfection, for many of them had only recently entered the fold of Islam and were still under preliminary training. Afterwards when their morale reached the desired standard under the guidance of the Holy Prophet, the ratio of ten to one was actually established. To destroy Islam at the initial stage of its development, enemies were all around to extinguish Muslims who were poor and left their land and wealth for the sake of faith. Islam had yet no home of its own and had not established itself firmly anywhere in the land where it could consolidate its power and make it a base for further action. For the Muslims were scattered all over the country and were living among the unbelievers as aliens whom their bloodthirsty enemies wanted to uproot from their own homes.

    In the same Chapter, see the verse 61, it says, “But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah. for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)”. This clearly indicates Islam never engaged a one-side war whole heartedly. Remember, this verse was revealed at the time of battle of Badr (the first battle) which was happened for their survival and sustenance.

    Then you are referring Chapter 48, Verse 16 – “Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: ‘You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture.”

    This chapter deals with the great victory that Allah granted to the Holy Prophet and the Muslims in the form of the Truce of Hudaibiyah.

    This conversation with the laggards about which advance instructions are being given to the Holy Prophet was to take place at the time of the expedition to Khaiber, and this whole Surah, including vv. 18-19, had been sent down three months earlier on return from Hudaibiyah on the way. A careful study of the context shows that Allah here is giving this instruction to His Messenger: “When after your return at Madinah the laggards come to you with their excuses, you should give them this reply, and when they express their desire to accompany you in the expedition to Khaiber, you should tell them this. “. Some Arabs were not ready to accompany Prophet in his mission and they brought many excuses at critical time and God asks Prophet to answer them as mentioned in the above verse.

    Now Verse 95 from Chapter 4 – “Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has distinguished with a special reward.”

    The main object of this Chapter to teach the Muslims the ways that unite a people and make them firm and strong. Introductions for the stability of family, which is the nucleus of community have been given. Then they have been urged to prepare themselves for defense. Side by side with these, they have been taught the importance of the propagation of Islam. Above all, the importance of the highest moral character in the scheme of consolidation of the Community has been impressed.

    From Verses 73-100 of this Chapter instructing Muslims to make preparation for defense and to fight bravely for the cause of Islam, without showing any kind of cowardice or weakness. They have also been warned to be on their guard against hypocrites. A line of demarcation has been drawn to distinguish the intentional shirkers from the helpless devotees.

    See Islam gives instruction to all walks of life. It includes defense also. Muslims should be prepared to defend Islam, including military defense, when the community of faith is under attack. Integrity of any nation and the security of its people requires strong defense. It encourages people to fight against unlawful attacks. Islam in its beginning had to prepare its people by contributing their wealth and lives to defend against the executioners. The difference lies in the fact that Islam, besides teaching the moralities in life, it shows a practical way of creating a social structure in which people have to achieve that.

    As I said before, if you ask one question at a time, it would have been easier to answer and it wouldn’t be this much time-consuming. Unfortunately you did not follow that.

    2) First of all I quoted verse 2:79 in Point no. 3, but you reply in your Point no. 2. Anyway I just want to draw your attention to reply in order.

    I surprise with your argument that Qur’aan does not refers at least one of three books as changed. Do you say then Qur’aan accepts all what is in the Bible (for instance)….??. If it has not changed why then Qur’aan says in 9:30, The Jews call ‘Uzair a son of Allah, and the christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. ALLAH’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

    Also in 5:48, “To thee We sent the scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

    In 6:34 and 115, 10:64 and 15:9, ALLAH vows to preserve the Divine truth and that is Qur’aan. It is clearly mentioned in 5:48 by the word “Muhaymin – that which preserves the previous scriptures. If previous scriptures were already preserved without a change at the time of Qur’anic revelation, then why it had to use “Muhaymin”…??. Also it is very clear from the basic teachings of both the religions (Islam and Christianity).

    See then what your holy book say about changing in scriptures, in Jeremiah 8:8 – ” ‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

    So such attempts have happened, but you said in one of your postings, “Yet, we can never ever say or even dare to say that Jews changed the scriptures”. Jeremiah said Jews have done it falsely but you say Jews have not done. Which one is correct….??.

    3) I didn’t jump to any conclusion from the verses I quote from the old testament. I was planning to ask one by one rather than posting many at a time.

    a) Now you said difference in numbers from two separate incidents. Well, then give me the background and context of these 2 incidents to validate your statement.

    Now answer for this one, Jesus saw a man sitting at the tax collector’s office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name? (a) Matthew (Matthew 9:9). (b) Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27).

    I have many more to ask, but I will ask only one by one.

    If you don’t mind, I found a change in bible presentation w.r.t Mathew 27:10, he quotes this verse from Jeremiah texts. But this verse was actually present not in Jeremiah but in Zechariah 11:12. Give your explanation please. I read Mathew 27:10 from Malayalam Bible from the link below.

    http://www.keral.net/cgi-bin/malayalambible/bib.cgi?book=40&chapter=27&verse=10

    Jeremiah texts which was written in Malayalam is not found in the English Bible. Explanation please….

    b) With ref to Qur’aan 32:11 and 47:27, there is no contradiction at all. Regarding 32:11, death occurs from this world and 47:27 refers to torment in the hereafter.

    Difference in numbers is not simple thing because according to you, “Bible is inspired by God”. Do you think God makes this mistakes in numbers??.

    Already the matter is getting bigger day by day from each post. Now if you want to include compilation, transmission and preservation, I have no problem. But the reply may be delayed.

    Contradictions find must be cleared whether it is from Bible or Qur’aan. If you say it is apparent contradiction, you can rectify. After all, this discussion is for each others understandings.

    4) You said Bible inspired by God. I say Qur’aan is God’s revelation. If you find Qur’aan anywhere with more than 114 Surahs, then I should definitely reply you. In the case of Bible, its presentation and acceptance is not unique.

    Now you are asking about why 114 Surahs in Qur’aan. It’s a big topic, I will attempt for it once you present the same for Bible.

    5) God protects his previous revelations through Qur’aan. I don’t understand why it is not sense to you. All the other revelations were sent to Prophets to guide people of that period. Most portions of those scriptures got lost due to the fading out of their language and due to multiple transitions of translations.

    Qur’aan says in 5:44, It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to God’s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of God’s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers”.

    In these verses, God is saying that He “entrusted” scholars and rabbis with His Scriptures and warned them not to give up the message for any worldly gain. What happened is that some of them did not keep the trust, and they started a long process of distortion of God’s message for the sake of gaining some little worldly gains. The wisdom and rationale is to give a lesson to us believers who came after them and received our own message. The lesson is that we are not to distort the message of God by any means for any personal gain, small or big. God also explained the process of how some scholars who were entrusted with His book distorted it. And this is where we Muslims should specifically pay attention in order not to fall into the same mistake.

    And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. (Al-Ma’idah 5:46-47)

    In fact, neither the Qur’an, nor any knowledgeable Muslim says that the Books of the Jews and Christians do not contain the Truth. The point is that the Jewish and Christian scribes and priests have added many things to the Book as God’s word on the one hand and on the other, they distort the true message through misinterpretation.

    For example see how the Jews misinterpret Jehovah’s promise of the Land of Canaan to the Children of Abraham (Genesis 17): They claim that “the seed” of Abraham in the context refers to the Children of Israel only, and not to the Children of Abraham’s firstborn, Ishmael.

    Similarly the Christians introduce into their Book, the pagan idea that Jesus was the only begotten son of God, (begotten not made!) and that he was/is really God Himself!

    The Qur’an refers to such distortions of the Holy Book. But this fact does not in any way invalidate the truth that is still remaining in the Books of the Jews and Christians. And this is specifically ascertained by many verses. Note that the Qur’an gives this meaning when it says:

    Qur’aan in 2:101 says, “And when there came to them an apostle from God, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of God behind their backs, as if [it had been something] they did not know”

    What some Jews and Christians try to do is to tell the Muslims that their own Book – the Qur’aan – certifies the authenticity of the present versions of their books. But the Qur’an says what means:

    “To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee… “(Al-Ma’idah 5: 48)

    6) a) Yes you said, read your comment, “I am wondering whether you answered the way you did because you didn’t get any benefit from the Quran personally regarding your eternal destination”. You meant to say if Qur’aan not mentions about eternal destination that what benefit I would get…!!!. Now you are denying. Who is lying…??….you or me….let the readers understand…

    b) I surprise your argument that I should quote statement which you mean.

    You quoted this Hadith, Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “The good deeds of any person will not make him enter Paradise.” (i.e., None can enter Paradise through his good deeds.) They (the Prophet’s companions) said, “Not even you, O Allah’s Apostle?” He said, “Not even myself, unless Allah bestows His favor and mercy on me.” So be moderate in your religious deeds and do the deeds that are within your ability: and none of you should wish for death, for if he is a good doer, he may increase his good deeds, and if he is an evil doer, he may repent to Allah.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 70, Number 577).

    Then, Narrated Aisha: The Prophet said, “Do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately, and receive good news because one’s good deeds will NOT make him enter Paradise.” They asked, “Even you, O Allah’s Apostle?” He said, “Even I, unless and until Allah bestows His pardon and Mercy on me.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 474)

    I don’t know what is the problem with the above Hadiths and verse from Qur’aan. It clearly says finally Allah’s mercy that would make one to enter heaven. Individual duty is to do righteous deed, and then Allah definitely bestows His mercy to enter heaven.

    c) Benefits Qur’aan offers –

    It is the perfect guidance to mankind

    The Qur’an will be a proof for us on the Day of Judgment.

    The Qur’an will intercede for us on the Day of Judgment.

    Your status in this life will be raised.

    You will be from the best of the people.

    The reciters of the Qur’an will be in the company of the noble and obedient angels.

    The Qur’an will lead you to Paradise

    I can explain in detail with references if you require.

    From my life, it created a sense of joy and relief. Along with the precepts that aid to the refinement of the self, if contains the rules and regulations to be observed in life. Besides, the Qur’an also explains various universal phenomena, in a manner that convinces anyone of the existence of God.

    May ALLAH helps us to understand the truth and follow it.

    Shaji

27. 

    Prasanna on 2008-12-31 at 5:54 pm

    Dear Syed Kareem,

    Thanks for your comment to my reply. In the process you made some usual Muslims claims. Here is my immediate reply to your claims.

    You, like many Muslims, implied in your comments that Jesus was sent only to Jews/Christians, and then you went on to claim this: “our prophet (Muhammad) was sent 4 whole of humanity same as the quran is not only revealed 2 the muslims but is also revealed for the whole of humanity.” Let’s see how true are your claims.

    (1) Your own Quran has something different to tell you about Jesus…

    He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him (Jesus) revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained. (Quran—19:21)

    And she who guarded her chastity, so We breathed into her of Our inspiration and made her and her son (Jesus) a sign for the nations. (Quran—21:91)

    Jesus, according to the Quran, is a revelation, mercy and sign for mankind/nations. You better comply with your own Quran.

    That’s what the true word of God, Injeel, had already declared nearly six hundred years before Muhammad spoke the above words to his folks. Here it is, read and know the truth:

    “For there is one God and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all (mankind), the testimony borne at the proper time.” (Injeel—1Timothy 2:5-6)

    “There is neither Jew nor Greek (all human beings), there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Injeel—Galatians 3:28)

    (2) You claimed that Muhammad was sent to whole humanity. Again your Quran seems to contradict your bold claim…

    “And we have sent no messenger but with the language of his people, that he might make (the message) clear for them.” (14:4)

    “He is (Allah) who has raised among the unlettered people a messenger from among themselves” (62:2)

    “And this (Quran) is a blessed book which we have revealed, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, so that you (O prophet) may warn the mother of the cities (Makkah) and those around her.” (6:92)

    “Lest you (pagan Arabs) should say: The book was sent down to the two sects before us (the Jews and the Christians) and for our part we were in fact unaware of what they studied (because that book was in a different language).” (6:156)

    “Verily, We made it a Quran in Arabic so that you may be able to understand” (43:3)

    The plain meaning of these above verses from the Quran give us the impression that Muhammad was sent to all of his people i.e. Arabs, from Allah and with revelations in Arabic language so that the Arabs can understand it.

    (3) According to the true word of God, the Injeel, Jesus Christ is the final revelation that God has sent into this world. God used different prophets, small and great, to communicate with humanity, but finally he sent Jesus Christ, because he is the final revelation and redemption for mankind from God’s side (Injeel—Mark 12:6; Hebrews 1:1-4). Jesus Christ warned that after him there will be false Christs and false prophets (Injeel—Matthew 24:24-26).

    May the true God open your eyes so that you can see and accept the truth.

    Prasanna.

28. 

    True Muslim on 2009-01-01 at 12:33 pm

    Dear Brother Shaji Peace of True allah Jesus Christ be with you always.

    May True allah Jesus guide you to the right path.

    I have no idea why answeringislam or answeringchristianity site blocked in UAE.

    You commented * You are completely misquoting the texts.

    From the verse Num 12:6, where the quotation of “False

    Prophet” comes…….this is your interpretation. Be true with words. *

    Firstly I did not misquote the text from Num 12:6 and no

    where the quotation of “False Prophet” comes in my

    interpretation. Rather this quote is regarding True Prophets

    send by God of Israel, true allah JEHOVAH.

    This is what I wrote and now I will also provide some proof.

    As I am true to my words.

    The True Prophet Hears From God Through Dreams:

    Num 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a

    prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known

    unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

    PROOFS

    Genesis 15

    1After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in

    a vision, saying,

    “Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; your reward shall

    be very great.”

    Genesis 46:2

    Vision I shall speak with him in a dream.

    God spoke to Israel in visions of the night and said, “Jacob,

    Jacob.” And he said, “Here i am.”

    1 Kings 3:5

    5 In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream at

    night; and God said, “Ask what you wish me to give you.”

    Now what about mohammad (may he rest in peace). ?

    Should I write about his madness, his jinns and revelation

    by fallen angel in disguise?

    You said, * Your allegation Muslims as rebellious people,

    then what about Crusaders…..??, “were they not rebellious

    in killing Muslims”.*

    I used Isa 30:9,10 Many People Actually Prefer False

    Prophets.

    This verse is from the chapter regarding a Rebellious People

    Let’s read some more verses. For this Mohammedans were

    perfect example.

    A Rebellious People

    8 Now go, write it before them on a tablet, And note it on a

    scroll, That it may be for time to come, Forever and ever:

    That this is a rebellious people, Lying children, Children who

    will not hear the law of the LORD; 10 Who say to the seers,

    “Do not see,” And to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us

    right things; Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits.

    11 Get out of the way, Turn aside from the path, Cause the

    Holy One of Israel

    To cease from before us.”12 Therefore thus says the Holy

    One of Israel: “ Because you despise this word, And trust in

    oppression and perversity, And rely on them.

    Its is so strange you Mohammedans say you believe in the

    same Allah Of Isreal but you have made the black stone

    kaaba your epicenter. You turn away from the Allah of

    Isreal, True true allah Jehovah. But you prefer the pagan

    allah of Arabia.

    Now let’s talk about Crusade. We all know it was the

    Mohammedans who first plundered the Christian shrines

    and Churches. Many were converted to mosque eg the shrine

    of St. John the Baptist. Looting Christian pilgrims to way to

    Holy land. In retaliation the early Christian fought back with

    the Mohammedans. But this entire thing happened

    thousand years ago. Today or in present days if you show me

    Christian believers who are killing Muslim because they

    were inspired by Jesus Christ. Then remember they are

    liars.

    Now let’s come back to 2008 A.D. and islam. The pan Islamic

    terror network. The recent terror attack in Mumbai. We all

    can prove your Islamic jehadis are loyal, honest, truthful,

    and obedient to allah of kaaba, Mohammad (RIP) and his

    Qur’aan. The Islamic jehadis have proven that they were

    inspired by islam. They even quote not so peaceful verses

    from the Qur’aan. To which people like Dr. zakir naik and

    gang are hiding. Rather you people say What’s going on now

    is thoroughly politically motivated, nothing it has to do with

    (Islamic) religious ideology. People misuse the power and put

    the blame on religion (islam).

    At least this much you must accept islam does teaches

    violence in some ways.

    You said – *Also in the next sentence, it speaks about False

    Prophets and it’s your claim that Prophet Muhammad was a

    false prophet without proving it. You quote from Bible and

    give your interpretation, how it is valid unless you

    prove……….?? *

    Here I only gave example of mohammad (RIP) as false

    prophet. The Fate Of False Prophets And Those Who Follow

    Them Mohammedans

    Now let’s read the biblical verse again

    Matthew 7

    15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s

    clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

    16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes

    from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

    Matthew 24:11 Then many false prophets will rise up and

    deceive many.

    Jer 13 Then I said, “Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, the prophets say

    to them, ‘You shall not see the sword, nor shall you have

    famine, but I will give you assured peace in this place.’”

    14 And the LORD said to me, “The prophets prophesy lies in

    My name. I have not sent them, commanded them, nor

    spoken to them; they prophesy to you a false vision,

    divination, a worthless thing, and the deceit of their heart.

    15 Therefore thus says the LORD concerning the prophets

    who prophesy in My name, whom I did not send, and who

    say, ‘Sword and famine shall not be in this land’—‘By sword

    and famine those prophets shall be consumed!

    You Mohammedans take pride in jihads with non muslim

    and justify it. By saying using sword islam brought peace in

    the region. And currently you people are going on jihads to

    bring peace. Your jihadis are made to believe that they are

    holy warriors and are killing evil people on earth.

    It is very interesting about your Mohammedans daawa

    preachers like ahmed dedat who discuss and debate a lot on

    Lord Jesus death on cross. I wonder why they are not

    discussing the tragic death of mohammad (RIP).

    Dear Shaji, I read your comments which are refuted by

    Prasanna. I notice you have problem with Christian

    apologetics. Remember it was your late ahmed dedat who

    started. Do you remember his video tapes? Please also ask

    Dr. Zakir Naik and gang to debate a Christian apologist and

    student of comparative religion.

    Read, understand and learn the Holy Bible, not from Islamic

    daawa preachers but from Holy Bible itself.

    I hope you would revert to the true God Jesus Christ

29. 

    Prasanna on 2009-01-02 at 4:44 am

    Dear friend Shaji,

    I fully understand that your busy schedule can be a hindrance to respond to my comments as fast as you might want. That’s ok with me. In fact, I am also in a sort of transition and occupied with some other activities in my life. This might affect my response time like yours. So let’s not worry about that too much.

    In my last response I did not follow any particular order. Thanks for pointing this to me. I think you are right, it’s good if we can follow some order. Therefore I’ll try to present my comments in an order that we both can feel comfortable at.

    (1) You wrote: “You got the word Jihad which basically means striving. Before coming to your queries, read what Qur’aan says about biggest Jihad. Qur’aan 25:52 says, “O Prophet, do not yield to the disbelievers, but wage a Jihad against them with this Qur’aan”. So the biggest Jihad Qur’aan describes is Jihad with Qur’aan”

    Thanks for your suggestions and I followed it. I was particularly intrigued by the word ‘Quran.’ The Quranic verse you quoted is 25:52. In that this particular word is missing as you can see bellow. I’ve given the Arabic transliteration for that same verse just so you can point to the word Quran in that for me, if you can.

    So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour (Quran 25:52).

    Fala tutiAAi alkafireena wajahidhum bihi jihadan kabeeran (Quran—25:52 transliterated Arabic)

    Once you show me the word Quran in the actual verse i.e. 25:52, then I can come back to you with some comments on your lengthy explanation. The bulk of your reply is actually hindering me where to being. Perhaps I need to write about one point at a time as you wisely suggested. I trust that the rest of the points below have a lot to offer to you to ponder.

    (2) You wrote: “I surprise with your argument that Qur’aan does not refers at least one of three books as changed. Do you say then Qur’aan accepts all what is in the Bible (for instance)….??. If it has not changed why then Qur’aan says in 9:30, The Jews call ‘Uzair a son of Allah, and the christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. ALLAH’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!”

    Let’s look into what you yourself quoted. The Quran in 9:30 accuses the Jews that they ‘call’ (note it doesn’t say they this change in their books, Taurat or Zabur) and Christians that they ‘call’ Christ the son of Allah (again it doesn’t say that Christians made this change in their book, Injeel).

    a) Regarding Jews calling “Uzair a son of Allah”: I would say that Muhammad as a wise man recited this verse because he might have heard such a rumor or even claim by some deviant or uninformed Jews of his time in his area. This is perfectly understandable. But if you think that this verse came from Allah and it refers to the Jews and their books, then it poses a big problem for you guys.

    Problem 1: Nowhere in the scripture of Jews (Taurat and Zabur) are we find any such reference. If you think that the above Quran’s accusation against Jews is true please provide me the reference from either Taurat or Zabur.

    You can ask any Jew about such a phrase, if he/she is religious, he/she will tell you that there is no such belief or saying among Jews. This means that Allah is accusing Jews of which they are not guilty. Can a true God do that?

    Problem 2: Since the phrase “Uzair a son of Allah” is not being circulated among Jews and no such evidence is produced by Muslims, the omniscience of Islamic Allah is in question now.

    b) Regarding Christians calling “Christ the Son of God”: Again, Muhammad might have recited this verse because of the beliefs of some of the perverted Christians of his time and place. It has been noted that there were ‘some’ Christian sects which erroneously believed that Christ was born as a result of God and Mary’s physical relationship. This is blasphemy. If some Christian sects had believed such a thing and in direct reply to such belief had Muhammad denounced it, then we can agree that Muhammad is right in opposing such blasphemy. But in the light of Muslims’ claims about Muhammad and the Quran, this verse poses some problems here:

    Problem 1: Christians call “Christ the Son of God” and it is also written in their scriptures. However, Christians do not believe that Christ is the result of God and Mary’s physical relationship. This blasphemy is in the minds of the perverted—both those who subscribe to such a belief and those who falsely accuse us (Christians) of it.

    The combinations of the words ‘Son of’ are a part of the phrases like ‘son of the prophet’ and ‘sons of the singers’ in Hebrew language. The words ‘son of’ give the meaning ‘in the order of.’ In Arabic language we’ve got phases like: ‘son of the road’ (traveler), ‘mother of books’ (Quran), ‘mother of cities’ (Mecca) etc. These are used in the Quran, the book you think is directly from Allah. By listening to these phrases no sane person would deduce any physical relationships based on the literal meanings of the words in those phrases. At least we, Christians, don’t do that. Even in India we call M.K. Gandhi as the ‘father of nation.’ Who would think that this means all Indians are produced as a result of the physical relationship between Gandhi and his wife, except a fool?

    Since Christians don’t assume any physical relationship (sexual) between God and Mary, and in addition to that nowhere in the Injeel do we see such a carnal sense in using the phrase ‘Son of God,’ how come the all Knowing Allah accuses Christians for something we didn’t commit? Do you really think the true God can do that?

    Problem 2: We can conclude that the Islamic Allah who uses Arabic phrases freely in his book can’t even understand Hebrew phrase ‘Son of God’ that doesn’t literally mean a son produced by God through sexual relationship.

    Problem 3: The Injeel clearly declares this truth:

    “Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son…Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God (Injeel—1John 2:22 & 4:15).

    According to the Jewish and Christian scriptures, Jesus existed as the ‘Word of God’ with God always and is given the title the ‘Son of God’ even before he was born to Mary in Bethlehem. Now the Christians who found God’s final revelation and salvation in Jesus Christ will naturally believe and follow the final book Injeel, knowing fully well that other prophets or other books that came later are not from the true God (Injeel—Matthew 24:10-11, 23-26; Mark 12:6; Hebrews 1:1-3). That is what prophesied in the Injeel and it is proved again and again. That’s why we have many religions (Islam, Ahmadias, Bahais etc.) which claim succession to Christianity. This only proves that the prophecy in the Injeel is truly from true God.

    c) You quoted some Quranic verses such as 6:34, 115, 10:64, 15:9 and 5:48. None of them contain any words that say only Quran will be preserved but not the other books. This is only some Muslims’ wishful thinking. Even in 5:48 we don’t see that the Quran claiming to ‘correct’ the previous scriptures. Instead it uses the words ‘confirming’ and ‘guarding.’

    In line with the above reasoning, the Quran that you believe as Allah’s word has this to say about the previous books:

    “So if you (O Muhammad) are in doubt concerning that which We have revealed unto you, then ask those who are reading the Book [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] before you. Verily, the truth has come to you from your Lord. So be not of those who doubt (it).” (Quran—10:94).

    “They who charge with falsehood the book [of the Koran], and [the other scriptures and revealed doctrines: Taurat, Zabur and Injeel] which we sent our [former] apostles [to preach], shall hereafter know [their folly]; When the collars [shall be] on their necks, and the chains [by which] they shall be dragged into hell: Then shall they be burned in the fire.” (Quran—40:70-72)

    Since we, Christians, understand that these verses are not from the true God they don’t mean anything to us. But they should mean a lot to you because you, as a Muslim, are supposed to believe and should not doubt what they say. Think logically. If the previous books were changed and that’s why Allah gave the Quran, then, why Allah is Asking Muhammad to refer to those books if he has any doubt about the revelation? In addition, the second verse is warning people like you and other Muslim apologists who are trying with all their human might and wisdom to discard the previous books of Allah. I am surprised to see that you take lightly Allah’s punishment in hell for ‘charging with falsehood the previous scriptures’? If I were you, I would not dare to charge the ‘previous’ revelations with falsehood for the remote possibility of going against the above verses. You better watch out for your future reward for daring to do such a thing before Allah.

    d) You wrote: “See then what your holy book say about changing in scriptures, in Jeremiah 8:8 – ” ‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

    So such attempts have happened, but you said in one of your postings, “Yet, we can never ever say or even dare to say that Jews changed the scriptures”. Jeremiah said Jews have done it falsely but you say Jews have not done. Which one is correct….??.”

    [i]. Look at these two statements below:

    1. Jeremiah said Jews have changed Taurat/Zabur falsely. (This is what you implied in your argument)

    2. Jeremiah said that some Jews had written for themselves a false/self revelation and claimed it to be the law of the LORD. (This is what the above verse implies)

    If you can understand that the above statements 1 and 2 are different then be advised that your question doesn’t hold water.

    If you think that there is no difference between the statements 1 and 2, and they are basically the same, then, I am wrong according to ‘your logic’. This way you can have some self satisfaction. This is how most of the Muslim apologists claim victory in their arguments and win accolades from ‘intelligent’ Muslim audience.

    [ii]. By pointing me to the alleged change in the Bible, you reminded me of the change in the Quran according to your authentic hadith. I thought the following is a clear proof of the change in the Quran. Maybe you have an explanation to the contrary. What do think? I’ve got few more such examples and I’ll try to ask your one after the other.

    “Allah sent Muhammad with … and among what Allah revealed, was the verse of Rajam (the stoning of married persons, male and female, who commit adultery) and we did recite this verse and understood and memorized it. Allah’s Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.” (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 539) This verse is no more in the present Quran and even then you assume that the Quran is not changed.

    e) You asked me: “Do you say then Qur’aan accepts all what is in the Bible (for instance)….??. If it has not changed why then Qur’aan says in 9:30…”

    [i] Muhammad came with the Quran which says the following:

    – Taurat, Zabur, Injeel and Quran are from Allah and are, therefore, Allah’s words.

    – Allah’s words cannot be changed (Quran doesn’t say that ONLY Quran cannot be changed).

    – In support of the above fact the Allah in the Quran suggests to Muhammad to ask those who read the previous books. In addition, Allah threatens those who charge the previous books with falsehood.

    Muhammad first thought that he had met with the devil. But after talking to a sectarian Christian who was a relative of Khadijah he began to believe and proclaim that he is a prophet. In order to convince Jews and Christians of his time he employed the above logical approach. Although he might have heard the Jewish and Christian scripture portions partly from others, he could not have access to the whole books to read them and to build his case carefully. Hoping that his poetic contents would dovetail perfectly with the Jewish and Christian scriptures, he endorsed their authenticity in order to be able to claimed authenticity for his poetry from them. Jews and Christians of his time, who news their scriptures and Muhammad’s true nature, could understand this scheme and thereby refused to accept his ‘prophethood’. In the end the Quran with 114 suras agrees with the Jewish and Christian scriptures partly and differs from them greatly. This reality sets the Jewish scriptures and Christian scriptures against Muhammad’s Quran, as you observed. But the reason for this should be obvious if you can understand Muhammad’s approach. For those who accepted Muhammad’s Quran have but one choice i.e. to find fault with the Jewish and Christian scriptures and reject them.

    Jewish and Christians scriptures are the full revelation of the true God for all mankind. They reveal God’s plan from the beginning to the end. They reveal who God is and who man is and what will happen to man in the end. They also offer mankind a salvation that no human religion can offer.

    After God’s final revelation, five hundred years later Muhammad comes along and claims prophethood and attributes the Allah’s revelation to his poetry. You believe that. I don’t. Please prove to me Muhammad’s prophethood first. Then we can meaningfully talk about the Quran. If Mohammad is not the true prophet, then, even if the Quran as a book is without any mistakes or contradictions it still remains as a human production nothing more than that.

    [ii] You quoted the Quranic verse 9:30, “The Jews call ‘Uzair a son of Allah, and the christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. ALLAH’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!”

    It’s a pity that many Muslims in the world curse Jews and Christians daily (minimum five times). In fact, Muhammad set this example before Muslims by cursing Jews and Christians during his lifetime and even on his death bed. By cursing the Jews and Christians Muslims constantly live in a cursed life as a result of the promise given by the true God to Abraham that is applied to his physical descendents Jews and to his spiritual descents Christians: “And I (God) will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed” (Taurat—Genesis 12:3). As the follower of the true God I obey Jesus’ command in blessing and praying for you Muslims: “Bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you” (Injeel—Luke 6:28).

    (3) You wrote: “I didn’t jump to any conclusion from the verses I quote from the old testament. I was planning to ask one by one rather than posting many at a time.

    a) You asked: “Now you said difference in numbers from two separate incidents. Well, then give me the background and context of these 2 incidents to validate your statement.”

    Ok let me try again to help you: Josheb is one of the mighty men who served David the king. Since he was mentioned in two places in two fights does not mean that he was involved in only two fights in his life time. As a fighter for the king, we can easily assume that he might have involved in scores of fights and killings of their enemies. All those incidents are not written in the word of God. However, it is mentioned in the book of Samuel that Josheb killed eight hundred at one time. Because of that heroic act he got the title Adino the Eznite. Here we are not told how he killed them and with what weapon/weapons he managed to kill their enemies. The details of his weapons are not written (for example with two swords—just a guess). Again in the book of Chronicles he is mentioned but there another heroic action performed by him was mentioned i.e. killing three hundred people with his spear at one time. If you don’t get this simple thing this time, just leave it.

    b) You asked; ‘Now answer for this one, Jesus saw a man sitting at the tax collector’s office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name? (a) Matthew (Matthew 9:9). (b) Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27).”

    Matthew 9:9, Mark 2:14 and Luke 5:27 all these verses explain how Jesus called Jewish tax collector by the name ‘Mathew Levi’ the son of Alphaeus. Mathew is his first name and Levis is his last name. Mathew used his first named while Mark and Luke used his last name. It is like the name of a friend of mine. My friend’s name is ‘Thomas Mathew’. Some call him Thomas and some Mathew. Both names refer to the same person. I hope you get it.

    c) You asked: “If you don’t mind, I found a change in bible presentation w.r.t Mathew 27:10, he quotes this verse from Jeremiah texts. But this verse was actually present not in Jeremiah but in Zechariah 11:12. Give your explanation please. I read Mathew 27:10 from Malayalam Bible from the link below. Explain please….”

    Here is the explanation:

    In Matthew 27:10 there is an allusion to Zechariah 11:12–13. But the major difference is the addition of the word ‘field’, upon which the fulfillment claimed is based. This word, and the conception behind it, comes from Jeremiah 32:6–9, where the prophet refers to the purchase of a ‘field’ for certain pieces of silver. It is obvious that Matthew’s concept of prophetic fulfillment rests upon both passages. Thus, he combines both passages into one quotation, giving credit to Jeremiah as the older and more predominant of the two prophets. A major prophet is preferred over a minor one in a similar double reference in Mark 1:2–3. There Isaiah is credited instead of Malachi (Malachi 3:1)

    d) You explained: “With ref to Qur’aan 32:11 and 47:27, there is no contradiction at all. Regarding 32:11, death occurs fro m this world and 47:27 refers to torment in the hereafter.”

    Say: “The angel of death, who is set over you, will take your souls. Then you shall be brought to your Lord.” (Quran 32:11)

    Then how (will it be) when the angels will take their souls at death, striking their faces and their backs) (Quran—47:27)

    Both verses are talking about gathering of souls at death (“the angel of death will take your souls” and “the angels will take their souls at death”). The question is, according to the Quran how many angels take the soul at death? I am not asking how many angels torment the soul after gathering it at death. Please answer this question and then you can add explanation.

    e) You wrote: “Difference in numbers is not simple thing because according to you, “Bible is inspired by God”. Do you think God makes this mistakes in numbers?? Already the matter is getting bigger day by day from each post. Now if you want to include compilation, transmission and preservation, I have no problem. But the reply may be delayed. Contradictions find must be cleared whether it is from Bible or Qur’aan. If you say it is apparent contradiction, you can rectify. After all, this discussion is for each others understandings.”

    [i] My friend Shaji, so far you couldn’t prove any mistakes in the Bible except quoting two different numbers from two different incidents from one person’s life.

    Let me give you the definition of a contradiction. A contradiction consists of a logical incompatibility between two or more propositions. It occurs when the propositions, taken together, yield two conclusions which form the logical inversions of each other. Simply stated, one cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time. (You can find this definition in online encyclopedia, Wikipedia).

    [ii] Here is a mathematical problem in the Quran. It’s neither a contradiction nor a scribal error:

    Quran gives some rules in dividing the inheritance among the heirs in the verses 4:11-12 and 4:176. If we apply those rules for heirs of a man who died leaving his three daughters (2/3 = each gets 2/9 verse 4:11), two parents (1/3 = each 1/6 verse 4:11) and one wife (1/8 verse 4:12) the total comes to 1+ 1/8. Whom to blame for this problem? Do you think the true God who is all knowing can give such rules?

    (4) You wrote: “ You said Bible inspired by God. I say Qur’aan is God’s revelation. If you find Qur’aan anywhere with more than 114 Surahs, then I should definitely reply you. In the case of Bible, its presentation and acceptance is not unique. Now you are asking about why 114 Surahs in Qur’aan. It’s a big topic, I will attempt for it once you present the same for Bible.”

    My question is why the Quran has only 114 why not more or less? Even if the answer is big I would say give it a shot. As I have assured you I will definitely try to write something that lets you know why my Bible has only 66 books, not more not less. If your problem is with Catholics having more than 66 books then you should ask Catholics, not me. Although I have some idea of why they do that I can’t speak for them and I don’t want to do that for you now because I’ve got some serious stuff to deal with.

    (5) You wrote: “God protects his previous revelations through Qur’aan. I don’t understand why it is not sense to you. All the other revelations were sent to Prophets to guide people of that period. Most portions of those scriptures got lost due to the fading out of their language and due to multiple transitions of translations.”

    What makes sense to me is to say that God protects his words. If you want to say that God protects only some of his words and but not all them that poses a big problem to those who believe in one almighty God who declared that his words cannot fail.

    You seem to claim that Allah protects the previous revelations, namely, Taurat, Zabur and Injeel through Quran. Before making such a statement first please prove to us the following points:

    1. Muhammad is truly God’s prophet

    2. Quran is truly God’s word

    3. The Allah of the Quran is the true God

    Until you don’t establish the above statements all your assertions based on them will remain as meaningless and irrelevant. Try to understand this point and do something about it.

    (6) You wrote: “Benefits Qur’aan offers –

    It is the perfect guidance to mankind

    The Qur’an will be a proof for us on the Day of Judgment.

    The Qur’an will intercede for us on the Day of Judgment.

    Your status in this life will be raised.

    You will be from the best of the people.

    The reciters of the Qur’an will be in the company of the noble and obedient angels.

    The Qur’an will lead you to Paradise”

    If the Quran offers so many benefits, Why Muhammad himself, who recited the Quran, admitted “I am not a new thing among the Messengers (of Allah) (i.e. I am not the first Messenger) nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am but a plain warner.” (Quran—46:9)

    Looks like finally you’ve got what I was requesting from you. Thanks for your answer: “From my life, it created a sense of joy and relief. Along with the precepts that aid to the refinement of the self, if contains the rules and regulations to be observed in life.”

    I am interested know in what way you are benefitted by the Quran here in this world. If I am not mistaken many religious books claim to offer many things to its followers. Hinduism books talk about the carnal pleasures its faithful enjoy in the life after with beautiful girls like ‘Rambha’, ‘Oorvasi’, ‘Menaka’ etc. What a religious book claims to offer in the next life can be trusted if and only if it is truly God’s word. This is what you need to prove in the case of the Quran. If it is truly God’s word it should also provide some tangibles benefits for us now here on earth in this life.

    In my case, this is what I’ve got from the true word of God the Injeel:

    In the year 1986 I found God or rather he found me. When I believed the God of the Bible and obeyed him by submitting my life to him through Jesus Christ the only mediator, I received instantaneous forgiveness before the holy God. And as a result of that, almighty God filled my heart with heavenly peace, inexpressible joy and blessed hope of the future. He removed fear, particularly of the Jinn and hell, from me. He also delivered me from the bondage of the ‘law’ and ritualistic worship. God has allowed me to call him Abba, Father. His nearness has been granted to me. I enjoy God and am growing in his truth. According to the will of the true God, Jesus Christ has become my saviour, my Lord and my very life. The Lord Jesus Christ is the perfect model for all humanity in all times. He never killed anybody nor had any sin to be forgiven, instead he gave his life for the forgiveness of all. He has assured me of the future in the Injeel:

    “Let not your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to myself; that where I am, there you may be also.” (Injeel—John 14:1-3).

    The heaven that is promised to me in the Injeel is the place where there is no physical need, suffering or carnal pleasures. The greatest thing in heaven is the very presence of God that satisfies and fulfills my very being. This is assured to me not because I earned it by my good deeds or religious ceremonies, but because God himself has offered this to me as a gift out of his love and grace through Jesus Christ.

    It is my prayer to God that you and other Muslim friends, who are following this discussion, may receive this wonderful gift of God that is available only in the name of Jesus Christ (Isa al Masih).

    Blessings,

    Prasanna.

30. 

    Prasanna on 2009-01-05 at 2:07 am

    Dear Shaji,

    Here I would like to give you my position on the Bible and the Quran. Please keep these things in mind so that you don’t have to waste your time or mine in questioning or commenting inappropriately.

    Regarding the Bible:

    – Contains 66 books (39 Jewish books [Taurat and Zabur]; 27 Christian books [Injeel]).

    – Written in 3 different languages (Hebrew, Aramaic and Geek).

    – Around 40 prophets/men of God were instrumental in writing these scriptures.

    – Written on 3 continents (Asia, Africa and Europe).

    – Written over a period of 1600 years (from 1500 B.C. to 100 A.D).

    Revelation and documentation: Divine revelations were given to the prophets in various ways such as dreams, visions, promptings, verbal communication etc. Documentation of the divine revelations was done under the ‘inspiration’ of God’s Spirit. The message that was documented was from God, and thus it is the divine message. However, the one who received the revelation (the prophet), the one who committed it to written form (prophet/scribes), the material used in the documentation (ex. ink, pen, parchments/paper etc.) and the written symbols (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek alphabets) are not divine but natural and physical. For the divine message to reach its intended audience, ordinary human beings like you and me, it is unavoidable for it to pass through non-divine means in the process. Therefore it is important to recognize that there are three different beings involved in documenting the ‘divine message,’—God, humans and materials. While God’s message remained indestructible, the prophets and the materials were short lived.

    Inerrancy: In their original form all the scriptures (Jewish as well as Christian) were totally without error.

    Inspiration: All the scriptures were produced by human beings under the superintendence of God’s Sprit. It is not a divine-dictation.

    Originals: The materials of the originals were not indestructible just like the prophets themselves. Only the message of the originals is indestructible. Now we do not have access to the original manuscripts of the scriptures. Either they are hidden somewhere or destroyed or disintegrated.

    Copies: Copies were made of the original manuscripts. They were done by religious scribes, but these scribes were not prophets. Nor their copying was assured of the divine inspiration. As a result, scribal errors could not be ruled out in the copies. Since copies of the scriptures were made innumerous times across generations in diverse places, in spite of the possible scribal errors the sheer number of copies from different places and times have enabled us to trace back to the script that the originals contained. Thus the copies of the manuscripts ensured the reliable transmission of the divine message down the millennia.

    Translations: Several translations were also made of the scriptures right from the earlier centuries. They too added strength to the reconstruction of the contents of the originals.

    God’s word: The Old Testament (Jewish scriptures) and New Testament (Christian scriptures) together form the Bible. The Bible, both in the original languages and in translations, is God’s word because it delivers the inspired/divine message that meets the needs of the sinful humans in this world and in the world to come as God intends. One of the English Bibles I used to read had a couple of spelling mistakes and at lest one grammatical mistake (Here I must apologize for many spelling and grammatical mistakes in my postings. In spite of those errors you still got my message!). Because of those mistakes, I never threw it away or declared it to be a corrupted and unreliable revelation of God. I accepted it as God’s word and I was blessed by reading and meditating on it. I would accept in the same way even if I find any Greek or Hebrew versions of the Bibles with some printing mistakes.

    In short, with regard to the Jewish and Christian scriptures, the ‘inerrancy’ is attributed only to the originals that contain the divine message written on sanctified materials by God’s prophets, but not to the copies. Although the ‘inerrancy’ is not attributed to the copies of the scriptures, yet they do contain the inspired message i.e. divine message. This divine message is not made void due to human errors such as possible scribal errors or material erosion.

    I, personally, believe the Bible (Taurat, Zabur and Injeel) is God’s word not because it is perfect in its language symbols or written materials quality or printer’s technology, but because it reveals the nature of God, nature of man and the way of salvation and plus its verifiable positive transforming power in the lives of helpless and hopeless sinners coupled with prophetic accuracy.

    Regarding the Quran:

    According to Muslim sources, it is supposedly given through one person (Muhammad), over a short period (twenty two years), in one language (Arabic), in one geographical area (Arabia). Originally it was not written by Muhammad, but his followers/scribes on various materials (stones, bones, leaves, bark etc.). Later, it was compiled by others on two different occasions (during first and third caliphates). In subsequent years scores of quranic copies were made. In the process of standardizing the Quran, competing quranic copies were destroyed and only one version of the Quran was allowed to remain.

    As we can ascertain from the Quran itself and also from the Islamic sources, it lacks both ‘inerrancy’ and ‘inspiration’. In addition to these, it also fails in revealing the nature of God, nature of man and the way of salvation.

    In the light of the above information and reasons the Quran, as a whole, can hardly be the word of God.

    Peace,

    Prasanna.

31. 

    Shaji on 2009-01-05 at 5:23 am

    Dear (Self claim) True Muslim,

    Jesus (peace be upon Him) is not God, he is one of the messenger of ALLAH. Jesus (pbuh) only revealed God’s words. He never claimed any divinity.

    Answeringislam and answering Christianity sites are blocked in UAE because the govt here don’t want to hurt sentiments of any religion. Still some sites appear because it’s not in their attention.

    I read your quotations. Regarding Num 12:6 and Prophecy, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) experienced dreams before he started receiving Qur’anic revelation. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once said that “The phenomenon of a believer seeing dreams come true is equivalent to 1/46th of prophethood” (Bukhari). Also Qur’aan says in 53:2-4, “Your Companion (Prophet Muhammad) is neither astray nor being misled, Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire, It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:

    I already explained what Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him) himself said about dreams and prophethood. He is neither mad nor misguided by fallen angels. These all your allegation without proofs. Moreover, what Prophet Muhammad said, he invited people to worship only one GOD and not to believe in making partners for GOD. As usual like any messenger of GOD, he also received abuse from people like you.

    Then regarding your call as rebellious people…..tell me the context of the verses you quoted……..and who used to whom…..??. Then I will reply. It will help me to understand how much you know about your holy book.

    Muslims are not Mohammedans. This is completely wrong usage and Muslims believe in all Prophets including Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him). Qur’aan 3:84 says, Say: “We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam).”

    Regarding Kaaba, it is the Qibla i.e. the direction Muslims face during their prayers. It is important to note that though Muslims face the Kaaba during prayers, they do not worship the Kaaba. Muslims worship and bow to none but Allah. It is mentioned in Surah Baqarah:

    “We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque: wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction.” (2:144)

    Islam believes in fostering unity For instance, if Muslims want to offer Salaah (Prayer), it is possible that some

    may wish to face north, while some may wish to face south. In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Kaaba. If some Muslims live towards the west of the Kaaba they face the east. Similarly if they live towards the east of the Kaaba they face the west.

    Tawaf around Kaaba for indicating one God – When the Muslims go to Masjid-e-Haram in Makkah, they perform tawaf or circumambulation round the Kaaba. This act symbolizes the belief and worship of One God, since, just as every circle has one centre, so also there is only one Allah (swt) worthy of worship.

    Regarding the black stone, hajr-e-aswad, there is a hadith (tradition), attributed to the illustrious companion of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), Umar (may Allah be pleased with him). According to Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, book of Hajj, chapter 56, H.No. 675. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said, “I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet (pbuh) touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you”.

    People stood on Kaaba and gave the adhaan At the time of the Prophet, people even stood on the Kaaba and gave the ‘adhaan’ or the call to prayer. One may ask those who allege that Muslims worship the Kaaba; which idol worshipper stands on the idol he worships?

    Also, Muslims believe in GOD of the universe, not the Allah of Israel.

    Next your problem, “We all know it was the Mohammedans who first plundered the Christian shrines and Churches”.

    Who all…..??. Better to say, you and few others…..Islam does not believe in forcible conversion. See Qur’aan says in 2:256, “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things”.

    If any atrocity happened and not according to Qur’anic principles and you explain without proper context and background, the culprit is not Islam. Remember same is applicable to Christians too…..who conquested the world one by one and it was there till last century.

    Now happenings in 2008 at Mumbai, if terrorists themselves proclaim that they are doing such activities for Islam, do you believe as such what they say……??. What is the basis of your evaluation….??. You will look for proof in Qur’aan or the terrorists personal benefits….??. If you say terrorists follow Qur’aan and Sunnah, then give me proof from the same source. I don’t have to explain for anybody’s self interests. If Hitler butchered million of Jews and he happened to be a Christian or having a christian name, I don’t blame christians that he followed Christian principles. If you feel it otherwise, you must refresh your knowledge. My dear brother, be sensible in your postings. Many others may be reading this…..

    If terrorists are quoting Qur’anic verses out of context and misuse it for their benefit, anybody can do any mischief and find proof in their belief.

    You said, “you must accept islam does teaches violence in some ways”. It seems you are striving hard to make accept a false propaganda against the truth of Islam. Tell me single verse from Qur’aan with context that Islam teaches violence…..then we will discuss. In the same forum, I already explained the verses misquoted without context. Please read that…..

    Qur’aan says about its revelation in 17:81, And say: “Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.”

    In brief, I will give proof regarding prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him). In Deuteronomy 18:20 we read “But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.”

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) spoke not just a single word, but dictated a whole book in God’s name. For twenty three years he spoke exclusively in the name of God Almighty. He was given one hundred and fourteen chapters, all of which were, and are to this day, recited day after day in God’s name. Chapters in the Qur’an begin with the words “In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.” Yet he did not die, but lived to fulfill his message completely. He himself even narrated in the name of God a similar verse in the Qur’an 69:46, “And if he (Muhammad) had invented false sayings in Our (God’s) name, We would have taken him by the right, then We would have severed from him his aorta, and there is none among you who could have held Us off from him”.

    Then you quoted Matthew 24:11, Jer 13, 14 15 – but how the words there applicable in the case of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)…..??. Please mention it from teachings and incidents from his life.

    Yes, we Muslims take pride in Jihad but that Jihad is not personal benefit for wealth or glory but to enlighten the true message of Islam. Those who want to malign, they do enough now and put blame on Islam. I believe for terrorist, no religion and they are misguided people by those who quest for power, whether globalized or regionalized.

    You continued saying, “Your jihadis are made to believe that they are holy warriors and are killing evil people on earth”…….I am very sorry your pathetic state of understanding. People of every region when they are being attacked resist by all possible means. Unfortunately Muslims are the majority victims of these attacks. Their country is being occupied by the foreign aggressors. They are heavily bombed and none of the media reports. If they retaliate it has been portrayed as terror. Who is the biggest terrorist?. Let people recognize from the facts……

    A number of years ago, when the Oklahoma City bomb went off, a headline in one of the newspapers, ‘Today’, summed up this attitude. With a picture of a fire fighter holding a dead child in his arms, the headline read: “In The Name of Islam” Time has of course proven that this bigoted assumption was incorrect, as Timothy McVeigh, a right wing radical now faces the death penalty for the crime. I can quote many many instances of double standards……I hope People who think realize the facts…….

    I don’t understand your version of Prophet Muhammad’s (pbuh) tragic death…..Please explain….

    Ahmed Deedat and Dr. Zakir Naik do their duty and I can understand your fury on them. Dr. Zakir Naik is available in Mumbai and your queries may be cleared with him. Zakir Naik has done enough debate with christian apologists and I hope he will be ready for another one. I am not a spokesman for him, so your problem may better solve with him direct.

    Finally I want to tell you only one thing. It is what ALLAH (True GOD) asked Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him) to convey – Qur’aan 6:19, Say: “What thing is most weighty in evidence?” Say: “(Allah) is witness between me and you; This Qur’an hath been revealed to me by inspiration, that I may warn you and all whom it reaches. Can ye possibly bear witness that besides Allah there is another Allah.” Say: “Nay! I cannot bear witness!” Say: “But in truth He is the one Allah, and I truly am innocent of (your blasphemy of) joining others with Him.”

    Regarding reverting to true religion, Qur’aan has the answer in advising the believers in 3:102, “O ye who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared and die not except in a state of Islam”.

    May ALLAH helps us to understand and follow the truth (Amen).

    Shaji

32. 

    Prasanna on 2009-01-14 at 11:16 am

    Dear Shaji,

    Here I would like to give you my position on the Bible and the Quran. Please keep these things in mind so that you won’t waste your time and mine in your questions or comments referring to me.

    Regarding the Bible:

    – Contains 66 books (39 Jewish books [Taurat and Zabur]; 27 Christian books [Injeel]).

    – Written in 3 different languages (Hebrew, Aramaic and Geek).

    – Around 40 prophets/men of God were instrumental in writing these scriptures.

    – Written on 2 continents (Asia and Europe).

    – Written over a period of 1600 years (from 1500 B.C. to 100 A.D).

    Revelation and documentation: Divine revelations were given to the prophets in various ways such as dreams, visions, promptings, verbal communication etc. The second important step of the scriptures is the documentation of the divine revelations. This was done under the ‘inspiration’ of God’s Spirit. The message that was documented was from God, and thus it is the divine message. However, the one who received the revelation (the prophet), the one who committed it to written form (prophet/scribes), the material used in the documentation (ex. ink, pen, parchments/paper etc.) and the written symbols (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek alphabets) are not divine but natural and physical. For the divine message to reach its intended audience, ordinary human beings like you and me, it is unavoidable for it to pass through non-divine means in the process. Therefore it is important to recognize that there are three different beings involved in documenting the ‘divine message,’—God, humans and materials. While God’s message remained indestructible, the prophets and the materials were short lived.

    Inerrancy: In their original form all the scriptures (Jewish as well as Christian) were totally without error.

    Inspiration: All the scriptures were produced by human beings under the superintendence of God’s Sprit. It is not a divine-dictation.

    Originals: The materials of the originals were not indestructible just like the prophets themselves. Only the message of the originals is indestructible. Now we do not have access to the original manuscripts of the scriptures. Either they are hidden somewhere or destroyed or disintegrated.

    Copies: Copies were made of the original manuscripts. They were done by religious scribes, but these scribes were not prophets. Nor their copying was assured of the divine inspiration. As a result, scribal errors could not be ruled out in the copies. Since copies of the scriptures were made innumerous times across generations in diverse places, in spite of the possible scribal errors the sheer number of copies from different places and times have enabled us to trace back to the script that the originals contained. Thus the copies of the manuscripts ensured the reliable transmission of the divine message down the millennia.

    Translations: Several translations were also made of the scriptures right from the earlier centuries. They too added strength to the reconstruction of the contents of the originals.

    God’s word: The Old Testament (Jewish scriptures) and New Testament (Christian scriptures) together form the Bible. The Bible, both in the original languages and in translations, is God’s word because it delivers the inspired/divine message that meets the needs of the sinful humans in this world and in the world to come as God intends. One of the English Bibles I used to read had a couple of spelling mistakes and at lest one grammatical mistake (Here I must apologize for many spelling and grammatical mistakes in my postings. In spite of those errors you still got my message!). Because of those mistakes, I never threw it away or declared it to be a corrupted and unreliable revelation of God. I accepted it as God’s word and I was blessed by reading and meditating on it. I would accept in the same way even if I find any Greek or Hebrew versions of the Bibles with some printing mistakes.

    In short, with regard to the Jewish and Christian scriptures, the ‘inerrancy’ is attributed only to the originals that contain the divine message written on sanctified materials by God’s prophets, but not to the copies. Although the ‘inerrancy’ is not attributed to the copies of the scriptures, yet they do contain the inspired message i.e. divine message. This divine message is not made void due to human errors such as possible scribal errors or material erosion.

    I personally believe that the Bible (Taurat, Zabur and Injeel) is God’s word not because it is perfect in its language symbols or written materials quality or printer’s technology, but because it reveals the nature of God, nature of man and the way of salvation and plus its verifiable positive transforming power in the lives of helpless and hopeless sinners coupled with prophetic accuracy.

    Regarding the Quran:

    According to Muslim sources, it is supposedly given through one person (Muhammad), over a short period (twenty two years), in one language (Arabic), in one geographical area (Arabia). Originally it was not written by Muhammad, but his followers/scribes on various materials (stones, bones, leaves, bark etc.). Later, it was compiled by others on two different occasions (during first and third caliphates). In subsequent years scores of quranic copies were made. In the process of standardizing the Quran, competing quranic copies were destroyed and only one version of the Quran was allowed to remain and that one also underwent modifications and changes.

    As we can ascertain from the Quran itself and also from the Islamic sources, it lacks both ‘inerrancy’ and ‘inspiration’. In addition to these, it also fails to reveal the nature of God, nature of man and the way of salvation.

    In the light of the above information and reasons the Quran, as a whole, can hardly be the word of God.

    I have been waiting, like other readers, to hear from you for a long time. I hope you will come up with some meaningful answers to the questions I raised in my last posting.

    Peace,

    Prasanna.

    • 

      Jabir on 2014-12-21 at 7:29 pm

      Thank you for searching the truth, please read Holy Quran and Holy Bible , after that if you find God from these holy books ,Worship only God , ask help only from God , You can find truth

33. 

    Shaji on 2009-01-15 at 2:59 am
34. 

    Deepak on 2016-06-24 at 1:07 am

    Dear prasanna,

    I have read all ur comments very patienly..Thank u for such information..It will be useful to every christian…
    I think Bro.Jerry should have a debate with zakir naik..So that that he cant preach against Jesus..wts ur opinion??